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Van attack in Toronto [Merged]

mariomike

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Remius said:
Looks more like he started a reserve BMQ and quit.

QUOTE

Alek Minassian, the suspect in Monday's van attack in Toronto, joined the Canadian Forces last August and turned up for basic training at Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Que., in September.

Sixteen days into his 13-week basic training courses he asked to leave and was ultimately released from his service in late October, according to a statement from the Department of National Defence Tuesday.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/alek-minassian-canadian-armed-forces-1.4633129

END QUOTE


 

serifed

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mariomike said:
QUOTE

Alek Minassian, the suspect in Monday's van attack in Toronto, joined the Canadian Forces last August and turned up for basic training at Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Que., in September.

Sixteen days into his 13-week basic training courses he asked to leave and was ultimately released from his service in late October, according to a statement from the Department of National Defence Tuesday.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/alek-minassian-canadian-armed-forces-1.4633129

END QUOTE

Last year around that time, the BMQ was 12 weeks and BMOQ was 14 weeks. Is there a course that's 13 in St. Jean? Or is this an article written without much research? I was in St Jean at the time and (luckily) don't remember this scrub.
 

Roger123

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Roger123

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Altair said:
He's probably looking at 10 life sentences. 250 years, I think that would be the longest sentence in Canadian history?
Unless he's mentally ill.
His intention at the end of the carnage was suicide by cop. He tries to get the cop to shoot him by pretending to quickly draw a firearm multiple times. There is a pecking order of crimes that inmates despise in jail, such as crimes against innocent children. Its reasonable to assume that he may try to take his own life in jail when he gets targeted for what he has done.
 

Roger123

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Jarnhamar said:
Were any children killed?
Im not sure. One of the eye witness accounts say she saw the van plowing through people on the sidewalk and a stroller in the air
 

brihard

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Roger123 said:
I didnt know such an pathetic subculture existed on the internet, it what appears to be an open discussion. In the wake of the Toronto attack, you would think that much more cyber monitoring and investigation would be conducted into such a group and action taken.

Very, very difficult to charge people for hypothetical discussions like this. It would need to get to the point of specifically counseling someone to commit an offense, or of inciting hatred against an identifiable group... Disgusting and hateful is not inherently illegal.
 

Altair

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Roger123 said:
His intention at the end of the carnage was suicide by cop. He tries to get the cop to shoot him by pretending to quickly draw a firearm multiple times. There is a pecking order of crimes that inmates despise in jail, such as crimes against innocent children. Its reasonable to assume that he may try to take his own life in jail when he gets targeted for what he has done.
Interestingly enough, if he had stopped by his kitchen and grabbed a decent sized knife he would probably be dead.

Take a large knife and charge a officer and you likely end up riddled full of bullets.
 

brihard

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Altair said:
Interestingly enough, if he had stopped by his kitchen and grabbed a decent sized knife he would probably be dead.

Take a large knife and charge a officer and you likely end up riddled full of bullets.

Shot at least, yeah, possibly dead. Or he could have dropped $30 for a cheap airsoft at Canadian Tire.

Coincidentally I was at the range today requalifying at pistol, and naturally enough the subject came up. A couple of us spread out to about the same distance and pointed our cell phones at each other as if they were guns. Looked to be pretty similar lighting conditions to what he faced. We agreed that yeah, it could easily and justifiably have gone either way. It was certainly reasonable to be able to discern that it was a cell phone (or at least likely not a gun), but equally in a high stress situation and with him moving about it could have been easy to perceive that the item was a gun and act accordingly.

The officer did a phenomenal job. He was cool and collected right from the start. Clearly he was able to recognize that he was not facing a gun. Note in the video how he reaches into his cruiser and turns off the sirens so he can hear. Hearing the man say 'kill me' etc, it looks like the officer recognized a suicide by cop attempt and was able to keep his time and distance until the suspect's behaviour changed. He transitioned to baton, went in, and took control. Interestingly had another officer arrived on scene any sooner, it's entirely possible the suicide by cop would have succeeded.

The officer would have been justified in shooting based on the actions and behaviours of the suspect. Especially the fast reach for the pocket. Fortunately the officer was switched on and cool enough to call the bluff, with a phenomenally successful result. His judgment and restraint was the epitome of professionalism. He done good.
 

Roger123

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Brihard said:
Very, very difficult to charge people for hypothetical discussions like this. It would need to get to the point of specifically counseling someone to commit an offense, or of inciting hatred against an identifiable group... Disgusting and hateful is not inherently illegal.

This is not the first mass killing fueled by people acting out against society for their apparent situation in life and lack of sexual exploits. People that identify themselves as supposed 'incels' undergo said radicalization predominately online. Such online discussions have to be a source of getting painted on some watch list.
 

brihard

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Roger123 said:
This is not the first mass killing fueled by people acting out against society for their apparent situation in life and lack of sexual exploits. People that identify themselves as supposed 'incels' undergo said radicalization predominately online. Such online discussions have to be a source of getting painted on some watch list.

I was responding less to 'investigation and monitoring' and more to 'action taken'. They can watch and monitor all they like, but until a person's behaviour crosses into a criminal threshold, they cannot be charged or jailed. It's a chronic challenge for polcec to be able to catch someone in that critical window between when they become sufficiently dangerous or enforcement action to be taken, and when they actually act.
 

Jarnhamar

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[quote author=Brihard]

The officer would have been justified in shooting based on the actions and behaviours of the suspect.
[/quote]

I would have cheered if the officer shot him in the crotch.
 

Altair

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Brihard said:
Shot at least, yeah, possibly dead. Or he could have dropped $30 for a cheap airsoft at Canadian Tire.

Coincidentally I was at the range today requalifying at pistol, and naturally enough the subject came up. A couple of us spread out to about the same distance and pointed our cell phones at each other as if they were guns. Looked to be pretty similar lighting conditions to what he faced. We agreed that yeah, it could easily and justifiably have gone either way. It was certainly reasonable to be able to discern that it was a cell phone (or at least likely not a gun), but equally in a high stress situation and with him moving about it could have been easy to perceive that the item was a gun and act accordingly.

The officer did a phenomenal job. He was cool and collected right from the start. Clearly he was able to recognize that he was not facing a gun. Note in the video how he reaches into his cruiser and turns off the sirens so he can hear. Hearing the man say 'kill me' etc, it looks like the officer recognized a suicide by cop attempt and was able to keep his time and distance until the suspect's behaviour changed. He transitioned to baton, went in, and took control. Interestingly had another officer arrived on scene any sooner, it's entirely possible the suicide by cop would have succeeded.

The officer would have been justified in shooting based on the actions and behaviours of the suspect. Especially the fast reach for the pocket. Fortunately the officer was switched on and cool enough to call the bluff, with a phenomenally successful result. His judgment and restraint was the epitome of professionalism. He done good.

The same TPS that isn't invited to the pride parade. Go figure.
 

Roger123

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[quote author=Altair

Unless he's mentally ill.
[/quote]

And if the conclusion is made that he is mentally ill, what is the projected scenario in that case? Locked up in a psych ward for the duration of his natural life?
 

Haggis

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I, too, was on the range today with my agency and this was discussed in detail.  There's a deep split among all the internet's armchair tactical experts chiming in to dissect a minute worth of grainy cell phone video. Some want the officer fired for lack of judgement in that he didn't shoot.  Others want him decorated.

Despite that he would've likely been quickly vindicated had he fired, he didn't.  He had the best view of the situation. Civilians walked out from behind the van during the incident, completely oblivious to the events unfolding.  Hence, he likely, at least for a time, had a "dirty background".  And it's obvious those people came from within the building behind the suspect, a building with a glass front that only the officer could see clearly.

Those of us that teach this type of stuff for a living believe that he made the right call under terrifyingly difficult circumstances.
 

Altair

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Roger123 said:
[quote author=Altair

Unless he's mentally ill.


And if the conclusion is made that he is mentally ill, what is the projected scenario in that case? Locked up in a psych ward for the duration of his natural life?
until no longer a risk to the public. Could be forever. Could be a few years.

The greyhound bus beheader is out free now.
 

Roger123

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Altair said:
until no longer a risk to the public. Could be forever. Could be a few years.

The greyhound bus beheader is out free now.

I was going to bring up that point. That would be an utterly disgusting scenario.
 

mariomike

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Altair said:
The greyhound bus beheader is out free now.

To refresh our memories,

Manitoba bus stabbing/ beheading 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/78542.200
9 pages

QUOTE

Mentally ill man who beheaded bus passenger is freed from all supervision
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/11/mentally-ill-man-who-beheaded-bus-passenger-is-freed-from-all-supervision
Will Baker, formerly known as Vince Li, was found not criminally responsible for 2008 killing in Canada and has now been given absolute discharge

END QUOTE

"Two female passengers from Ontario are now seeking $3 million in damages each – $1 million for ‘general’ damages, another million for ‘nervous shock’ damages, and a third million in ‘special’ damages from Greyhound, Vince Li, the state of Manitoba and the law enforcement department.

The family of Tim McLean only sued for $150,000 in damages."

 

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