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Ukraine - Superthread

MilEME09

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so crazy idea, but the Canadian element of the Ukrainian Foreign legion is estimated 550+, many likely have LAV experience, let's donate a battalion of LAV's plus some for training. The training ones stay in Poland to train the Ukrainians, then you push the battalion to the foreign legion for the Canadians to use right away.
 

rmc_wannabe

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And remember wounded are likely 3 times that, if not more, so Russia is likely past 100k casualties
If that's true, its mind boggling there is still popular support in Russia for this folly. Those numbers are higher than the Soviet-Afghan War and Second Chechen War combined....
 

The Bread Guy

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If that's true, its mind boggling there is still popular support in Russia for this folly. Those numbers are higher than the Soviet-Afghan War and Second Chechen War combined....
But what USSR 2.0 GenPub sees/hears/reads is that these are Nazis killing their kids, just like the Ukrainians who've been allegedly genociding all those Russians in the separatist enclaves since 2014.
 

Gunnar

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Some reassuring news from Pravda on USSR 2.0 casualties (highlights mine) ...
View attachment 71714
given that russian propaganda overstates most things by a factor of 10 (they seem to do the old fashioned "big lie" version of propaganda, Ukraine's is a bit more subtle), then the losses are probably 2:1 in the Ukrainian's favour...
 

Colin Parkinson

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Seems they were "missing" at least 30,000 soldiers even before the invasion, likley they don't even know for themselves how many have died.
 

lenaitch

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There a lack of will or taste for any more in Europe after the defeat of Nazi Germany.
Various US Generals, George S, Patton and PM Churchill were very verbal about pushing back USSR back to its pre war borders.
Patton wanted to use the found gold to fund a future army. George Patton’s Trumpian Plan to Fund the Military With Captured Nazi Gold
Churchill's plan Operation Unthinkable Operation Unthinkable: Churchill's plan for World War Three | The National Archives.


A lot of Monday morning quarterbacking could be done on the closing days of the War in Europe. Pushing the Soviets back, forcing the unification of Germany.

But did the Allies want to continue a war after almost 6 years and they were running out of funds and manpower.
And getting ready to pivot to the Pacific.

How do you convince a war-weary public, including a damned-near broke UK, that they should now turn on an ally?
 

rmc_wannabe

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And getting ready to pivot to the Pacific.

How do you convince a war-weary public, including a damned-near broke UK, that they should now turn on an ally?
The long game.

A lot of folks felt that Wilson buggered up Versailles 1919 by making too radical a change to the balance of power in Europe by demanding republics vice a return to monarchies in some of the divested states of Germany and Austria-Hungary.

Ofcourse it opened the door to revolutionaries and fascism because power vacuums in places that were used to absolute power are usually filled by dictators (see Egypt, ??? BCE to Present).

If Germany were to be beaten down to a point of conquest, no issues. That would have taken another 6 years and mllions more men to accomplish, both of which were not in the cards.

The same can be said of the Soviets in WWII. The UK/France/US knew that the Russians were looking for Lebensraum just as much as the Nazis were in 1939. The Baltics, Finland, Eastern Poland, the Rush to Berlin.... all of it was a land grab by a totalitarian dictator that just happened to hate the same one we did. The Allies would face that skeleton in the closet eventually, but folks were done with the war, and the chests were empty.

So here we are, almost 80 years since the end of WWII, facing down the Russians in a European land war no one is equipped for, because we didn't think we could win the short game. Now we play the long game and suffer.
 

Colin Parkinson

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To the people of 1945, it no doubt felt to them like the end of the long game. An estimated 70-85 million people dead in six years. I doubt Main St. USA, Poland, France or the UK would have cheered, or voted, for the 'long game'.
Not to mention all the propaganda about help our Soviet "Allies". Most of the Trade Unions had been infiltrated by that time (not to mention most of the British Government) and the unions might try to pressure governments to back down.
 

Skysix

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If that's true, its mind boggling there is still popular support in Russia for this folly. Those numbers are higher than the Soviet-Afghan War and Second Chechen War combined....
In the DPR, if 2million is their approximate population, their admitted KIA scaled to the USA would be about 300k with 1.2 MILLION wounded. More than WW2 in US terms. (18:10---)

 
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