• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Ukraine - Superthread

Good morning everyone,

I have just deleted a number of posts in this thread for "Trolling".

If you can't manage your emotions towards certain opinions shared in this thread, I am going to remove your ability to participate in this thread.

You may not agree with someone's opinion and that is completely fine but....

You will provide a rebuttal to their post, not attack them personally.

In the case of @HiTechComms it's clear many/most don't share the same opinion as the member; however, throughout all their posts, the member has not once insulted another member.

I can't say the same for others. Attack the idea, not the person.

We also have an ignore feature, it's very handy if you're a non-moderator and don't have to listen to everyone 😉

Thank you for your continued cooperation.

Milnet.ca Staff
 
My Brother inlaw worked in biological research, a few million does not buy you much even in a place like Ukraine. Agicultural countries do a lot of work with diseases like Anthrax and other livestock diseases. In fact the Black Death as I recall came from Central Asia as a livestock disease that leapt to Humans. So it's not that weird to setup labs in agricultural country.
 
Sometimes in Europe, a highway seems oddly straight and broad for a long stretch.
When that other autocrat caused the autobahn system to be built, I gather that this was a major planning consideration. Also many bridges/overpasses had the shafts for demo built in. Mind you this memory comes from the 70's.
 
If this is fully correct, sounds like a few kinks to iron out with UKR's foreign legion intake process
Like a lot of foreigners eager to fight the Russians, Paul Hughes arrived in Ukraine from Calgary expecting to be handed a gun and taken straight to the front line.

And like many would-be combatants, the notion of even coming to Ukraine had been a bit of a whim. Mr. Hughes, 57, is an anti-poverty activist who spent some time with the Princess Patricia Light Infantry years ago. He’d felt compelled to join the struggle in Ukraine after the Russian army invaded last month, even though all he knew about the country was that it contained a city called Kyiv.

A generous donor gave him a plane ticket and after a circuitous route that included a brief detention in Germany, Mr. Hughes arrived in Lviv on March 4 eager to sign up with the newly formed International Legion for the Territorial Defence of Ukraine. “I thought literally when I got across the border they were going to hand me a gun,” Mr. Hughes recalled.

He quickly discovered that the legion was ill-equipped and disorganized. “They couldn’t guarantee me a weapon,” he said. “I’m not going anywhere near Russia without a weapon. So I bailed on all that.” ...
Full text (without headline) also attached in case link doesn't work for you.
 

Attachments

  • ukr-foreign-legion-globe-and-mail-27mar2022.pdf
    245.2 KB · Views: 2
If this is fully correct, sounds like a few kinks to iron out with UKR's foreign legion intake process

Full text (without headline) also attached in case link doesn't work for you.
To be fair, they were pretty much trying to organize a regiment without any logistics, etc already in place so if course its a mess at first. Though according to videos I've seen, looks like the foreign legion is very active around Kyiv, and appear well equipped. You gotta remember the Ukrainians were equipping the foreign legion and 900k reservists at the same time. There will absolutely be some chaos in organizing, that's why it was a month before we saw organized counter attacks.
 
Keep Going GIF by MOODMAN
 
To be fair, they were pretty much trying to organize a regiment without any logistics, etc already in place so if course its a mess at first. Though according to videos I've seen, looks like the foreign legion is very active around Kyiv, and appear well equipped. You gotta remember the Ukrainians were equipping the foreign legion and 900k reservists at the same time. There will absolutely be some chaos in organizing, that's why it was a month before we saw organized counter attacks.
Also given the reported volume of people dropping by for the fight on pretty short notice, what system would be perfect, right?
 
This post is more on the humanity aspect of things. I might find VICE news to normally have exceptionally bad articles, but I will also say that their war docs are by far the best out there.

Vice released this today on the battle for South Ukraine. I consider myself a hard man, but there were many moments in this that broke me down. Full warning, there is alot of grieving relatives of lost ones in this. Slava Ukraini

 
Ukraine launches investigation into POW treatment, though the video that launched it has proven fake, but it shows Ukrainian transparency.
It would be nice if you would clarify where you found out the video was fake from?

I saw the video, they were kneecapping prisoners.

Didn't look fake and should definitely be investigated, especially if Ukraine wants to continue to occupy the moral high ground.
 
Hurry up and wait, CQ's shop all messed up... sounds like the authentic military experience to me :)


No gun, no helmet, no action: The frustrations of some novice Americans who signed up to fight in Ukraine

Before he decided to buy a one-way plane ticket to Ukraine, Adam worked two jobs, as a security guard and as a cashier at a 99 Cents store. He owned guns and fired them at shooting ranges, but the only fighting he had ever done was in mixed martial arts classes.

That didn’t stop the tall, lanky 24-year-old from Thousand Oaks, a Los Angeles suburb, from flying to this war-torn capital earlier this month. He joined a new international legion set up to fight Russian forces about 15 miles outside the city.

Adam, sporting camouflage pants, is unfazed by his inexperience in combat. He will rely, he said, on sheer determination — to save Ukraine and protect American values.

“Democracy and freedom are very important to the whole world,” said Adam, seated in the lobby of a Kyiv hotel, along with other foreigners dressed in their new military camouflage who have joined his unit. “What [Russian President Vladimir] Putin is doing is simply wrong. And Ukraine is the underdog, so they need help.”

Since Russia invaded Ukraine, thousands of Americans and other foreign nationals have signed up to fight for Ukraine, answering a call to action by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Now, as the conflict enters its fourth week, a growing number of foreign volunteers are flowing into the capital, signing contracts and receiving weapons and combat training before getting deployed to one of the numerous front lines of the war.

They have been compared to the 32,000 foreigners, mostly Americans and Europeans, many of them equally unprepared, who joined the republican forces in Spain’s 1936-39 civil war. That conflict became a losing battle against nationalists led by General Francisco Franco, with the support of Nazi Germany and the fascist Italian government of Benito Mussolini.

In Ukraine’s brutal modern war, though, the romance of adventure and political convictions can quickly vanish as volunteers get pounded by airstrikes, Grad rockets and artillery shells, or engage in urban warfare on the streets of cities.While some experienced American veterans of wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are said to be among the volunteers, many of these would-be fighters, such as Adam, are novices at best.

They say they do share a sense of righteous conviction. They’ve seen the images of civilians being killed by Russian bombardments, and like those who went to Spain, they believe they are on the right side of history.

“I’ve got very little military experience, but I am willing to go and fight and die with this guy,” said Brian, a Canadian business analyst, referring to Adam standing nearby, “because my Ukrainian relatives are here.”

“I have been a hunter all my life,” Brian said. “I got assigned to a sniper team here. I am going to kill every ... Russian I can,” he said, using an expletive to describe Russians.

“Never killed a man in my life but ... I am going to enjoy [it].”

All the foreign volunteers interviewed for this article did not want their last names to be used. Some were concerned about their security, while others wanted to protect their relatives or had not yet told their families they were in Ukraine to fight the Russians.
It remains unclear what added utility the arriving foreign recruits can bring as soldiers, medical aides or logistics personnel on the battlefields.

And the government’s volunteer program, at times, appears to be disorganized, according to interviews with five volunteers and an ethnic Georgian commander who has enlisted Americans and other foreigners into his own paramilitary force in Ukraine. Some would-be fighters are processed in their home nations. Others are landing in the capital without contacts or speaking the language, hoping that someone will get them trained and shipped to the front.

If nothing else, the foreigners may be useful for public relations purposes, demonstrating the global support for Ukraine.

“This is a way of tying in populations from other countries to the Ukrainian war and the outcome of the war,” said Ilmari Kaihko, an associate professor of war studies at the Swedish Defense University who has researched Ukraine’s conflict. “The political might be more important in the long term than the actual military contribution.”

But there is concern that some of these American and other Western volunteers could become liabilities on the battlefield. If Americans get captured by Russian forces, they could become fodder for the Kremlin’s propaganda machine, held up as evidence that Ukraine’s resistance is really an American and Western plot. If they get killed, it could bring more pressure on the United States to retaliate.

Adam just wants to get on the battlefield as soon as possible. His first choice, he said, is to be a medic because he took a first aid class in the United States, he said. His second choice?

“A sniper,” he said.

He has no experience at either job.

In the days after the Feb. 24 invasion, Adam said, he couldn’t stop watching the news. As a Jew with dual U.S.-Israeli citizenship, he said he saw similarities between the Russian assault on Ukraine and Israel’s conflict with the Palestinians. He believed that both Ukraine and Israel were “being attacked unprovoked” and that both nations needed more military help to fight their enemies.

He was working odd jobs and getting a degree in automotive technology at a local community college in the San Fernando Valley. “Not much going on at home,” said Adam.

He said he liked “guns, cars, building stuff, basketball, sports and MMA,” referring to mixed martial arts, the sport where fighters battle inside a cage. At shooting ranges, Adam said, he would “shoot moving targets and practice pulling out my weapon and reloading.”

For months, he was planning to move to Israel and join the Israel Defense Forces, he said. But he decided to make a stop in Ukraine first.

Adam didn’t know much about the county, but he felt he knew Eastern Europe because his family descended from Polish and Lithuanian immigrants. He didn’t tell his parents, his three sisters and brother that he was going to fight the Russians, he said. He told them instead that he was going to help Ukrainian refugees entering Poland.

He didn’t reach out to the Ukrainian Embassy or consulate. Nor did he log into its recruitment website, fightforUA.org, where foreign volunteers are supposed to register and learn about the process of joining Ukraine’s armed forces, Adam said.

“I only found out about fightforUA.org when I was already here,” he said.

He flew to Istanbul and then to Warsaw. He hitched a ride to the border and crossed into Ukraine, passing through the western city of Lviv and finally reaching Kyiv.

As many as 20,000 foreigners have expressed interest in joining the International Legion of Territorial Defense of Ukraine, as it is officially called, according to the Ukrainian government. That includes an estimated 4,000 Americans, an official with the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington told The Washington Post last week.

They had to sign contracts saying they will fight until the end of the war. Other volunteers said they were told the contracts meant Geneva Convention rules would apply if they get captured or killed, though experts say it’s unclear if they would be treated with full prisoner of war status.

Each volunteer would receive a salary of roughly $3,000 a month, the same as a soldier, said Yaroslav, a Ukrainian military officer and head organizer of the International Legion in western Ukraine, who declined to give his last name for security reasons.

There are already concerns about the international legion. Volunteers complain of delays in contracts, extensive paperwork, not getting weapons or training quickly enough, and days of waiting before getting assigned to battlefield units.

“There is a big bureaucracy, even now when there is war, and those guys have to experience that bureaucracy,” said Mamuka Mamulashvili, commander of the Georgian National Legion, a paramilitary force that has been fighting Russian separatists and forces in eastern Ukraine for eight years. “For me, it seems very amateur.”

He said “there is a very big flow” of inexperienced Americans and foreigners wanting to fight in Ukraine. “We cannot just take some guy from Brooklyn who wants to fight on the front line,” he said, adding that anyone with no military experience is turned away from his force.

Yaroslav says they are not disorganized. He said there is a thorough vetting process and only those with battlefield experience are allowed to fight.

“When they don’t have any experience, they aren’t useful here. We tell them they can be volunteers for something else.”

Foreigners can also join other Ukrainian militias that have lower requirements to join and allow volunteers to leave more easily for family or work reasons. All could face risks on the battlefield, and not just from bullets and bombs: A spokesman for Russia’s Defense Ministry, Igor Konashenkov, recently described the foreign volunteers as “mercenaries” who, if caught, could be “prosecuted as criminals.”

Legally, Americans can take part in another country’s war. But the Biden administration has urged U.S. military veterans and other Americans not to join the Ukrainian forces and to leave if they are already in the country.
Kelso, another volunteer, didn’t listen. The Montana-born construction worker left his job after seeing on the news “innocent civilians being directly targeted and attacked,” said the tall, slim former U.S. soldier, who was also in Adam’s group of foreign volunteers.

He said he had served in the U.S. Army for four years after high school, but had never seen combat. “This is my first war,” said Kelso.

He registered on the Ukrainian government’s recruitment website and filled out the forms. But he didn’t hear back for days. “I am not going to wait for an email response while there are people dying,” he said.

So, with some money saved, he paid $700 for a one-way flight to Poland. He carried warm clothes, a sleeping bag, medical supplies, family photos and a bulletproof vest a friend had donated. When he arrived at the border, he was connected to people with the international legion, he said.

“I do believe that God is on our side here,” said Kelso. “We are on the side of good. What the Russians brought is pure evil.”

Steps away stood other volunteers, among them a German who said he had served in Afghanistan for 412 months with the German military, part of the NATO security forces there, and a Scottish grandfather who said he was a British army veteran and that he had fought against the Islamic State in Syria with the YPG, or the People’s Protection Units, a mainly Kurdish militia.

Some have been waiting for nearly 10 days for their contracts and other paperwork to be approved.

Zelenskyy “said we would be welcome here and we would be armed and ready to go,” said Rob, 61, the grandfather from Edinburgh. “We should be at the front lines. There are young Ukrainians who are at this moment dying. And we are here.”

“I came here to fight for Ukraine,” Rob said.

Adam has not told his mother that he’s part of a fighting unit, despite her concerns about his well-being expressed in messages on WhatsApp.

“I don’t really need her to ruin my mental aspect right now,” said Adam. “I am here on a mission.”

Minutes later came the sound of an air raid siren, from an app on Adam’s phone, and a message came up in Ukrainian. “I can’t read it,” said Adam. “But I know there is a missile somewhere.”

On Saturday, when reached by phone, Adam was angry and emotional. Despite the legion’s assurances of proper vetting, he was now in the northern section of the capital with a territorial defense unit mostly composed of Ukrainian civilians turned militiamen.

Adam still hadn’t received a bulletproof vest, a helmet — or a weapon. And he could hear the sounds of shelling, he said.

“I have been here 15 days now and still nothing is happening,” he said in a phone interview. “I am not putting up with that.”

“They expect me to guard the base with no guns, no armor, no vest, no helmet and no knowledge of the Ukrainian language,” he continued. “It makes absolutely no sense. I am not going to stand around and get hit with a missile with no guns or nothing. If am going to die, I’d rather get to the front line and do that.”

So he was now trying to join another unit closer to the front line.

Adam said he intended to get as close as possible to the city of Irpin on Kyiv’s northern fringes, a volatile battle zone where three journalists were recently killed.

“I got all the way here by myself. I will be just fine,” he said.

No gun, no helmet, no action: The frustrations of some novice Americans who signed up to fight in Ukraine
 
I really don’t understand some of the people who volunteered for combat duty who have zero military experience. There are a lot of roles that they could actually contribute. While you want to be the best guy in a team, you kind of want to always be the worst guy on your team - so one is just worried about making the standards for the team, not having to drag folks along who are a menace to you and the rest of the team.

Combat is no joke and having some assclown in the group ND’ing someone or drawing attention at the wrong moment can be final.
 
I really don’t understand some of the people who volunteered for combat duty who have zero military experience. There are a lot of roles that they could actually contribute. While you want to be the best guy in a team, you kind of want to always be the worst guy on your team - so one is just worried about making the standards for the team, not having to drag folks along who are a menace to you and the rest of the team.

Combat is no joke and having some assclown in the group ND’ing someone or drawing attention at the wrong moment can be final.

There's probably an opportunity to NATO to set up some kind of training establishment in Poland, or another bordering NATO country, to accept volunteers like this, train them, and integrate them into fighting units more effectively.

At the same time, Ukrainians could use this base as a way to reconstitute units out of contact with the Russians.
 
There's probably an opportunity to NATO to set up some kind of training establishment in Poland, or another bordering NATO country, to accept volunteers like this, train them, and integrate them into fighting units more effectively.

At the same time, Ukrainians could use this base as a way to reconstitute units out of contact with the Russians.
I would be surprised if Ukrainian casualties weren't being brought to Poland if the injury was serious enough. I agree training camps should be set up, and maybe some trained on western advanced kit, or grab people with flying experience and get them into polish migs to train to fly for Ukraine
 
I would be surprised if Ukrainian casualties weren't being brought to Poland if the injury was serious enough. I agree training camps should be set up, and maybe some trained on western advanced kit, or grab people with flying experience and get them into polish migs to train to fly for Ukraine
While I agree with you and @daftandbarmy it does risk one being viewed as party to the conflict. Supply equipment sure, but training combatants for duty in another country is generally viewed differently.

I don’t have a problem with it, but I think NATO might blanch.
 
Back
Top