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Ukraine - Superthread

Kirkhill said:
JEF






www.gov.uk

Joint Expeditionary Force leaders' statement: 15 March 2022

Leaders' statement from the Joint Expeditionary Force meeting.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

Nauseda: JEF leaders discuss air defense for Ukraine, sanctions on Russians

VILNIUS – Leaders of countries contributing to the UK-led Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF) discussed air defense support to Ukraine and san...
www.baltictimes.com www.baltictimes.com
eng.lsm.lv

JEF members "committed to supporting Ukraine at pace with military aid"

Following a joint meeting in the UK on March 14-15, the member nations of the Joint Expeditionary Force military formation, of which Latvia is one, issued the following statement.
eng.lsm.lv eng.lsm.lv

Estonian PM at JEF summit: The aim is full isolation of Putin

TALLINN - At a meeting on Monday of the leaders of the countries that are part of the Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF), convened at the invitatio...
www.baltictimes.com www.baltictimes.com
www.gov.uk

Prime Minister to host Nordic and Baltic leaders as he pushes to bolster European resilience and defence

Nordic and Baltic leaders will attend a summit in London this week hosted by Prime Minister Boris Johnson.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

As I have noted elsewhere JEF has been adopting an independent line to NATO and to the EU.

UK
Netherlands
Denmark
Norway
Sweden
Finland
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Iceland

Norway, Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania all have skin in the game, sharing borders with Russia.
Denmark is tightly integrated with Norway and Sweden as well as with Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.

Sweden and Finland are not in NATO although they are recognized as partners. They pursue their own foreign policy.
Britain is in NATO but not in the EU. It pursues its own foreign policy
Britain has its own, independent nuclear deterrent.

If NATO and the EU won't step up others may feel they have to.

Ukraine already has a treaty with Poland and the UK.

Poland, Slovenia and Czechia in Kyiv? And previously arguing against Germany, Hungary, Bulgaria and Italy?

New list?

UK
Iceland
Netherlands
Denmark
Norway
Sweden
Finland
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania

Poland
Czechia
Slovenia

Ukraine?

Not sure about the Netherlands. Although they co-operate with the UK's Royal Marines they also participate in a German Brigade and a French Brigade. More importantly they vociferously sided with France in denying Ukraine a fast track entry into the EU.

Germany, Hungary, Bulgaria and Italy argued against EU sanctions on Russia because it would limit their access to steel, aluminum and a bunch of other strategic stuff they get from Russia.
Click to expand...
Skysix said:
Yeap.

If NATO doesn't stop rationalising/bloviating, get off the fence and stop channeling Chamberlain/pretending to be a military alliance pretty damn soon I predict Ukraine and all of the former Warsaw Pact recent additions will form a new nuclear armed military alliance. The only question is with which nuclear power.

Not the UK, USA or Russia obviously. Which leaves France, China, Israel, India, Pakistan and North Korea.

I doubt they would be stupid enough to commit to a relationship with North Korea. Pakistan and India fight so often an Article 5 equivalent would be highly dangerous.

Which leaves France (geographically close and not dependant on Russia), Israel (possible given their lack of tolerance for threats, and probably the best choice given the number of potential Jewish citizens in the new alliance) and China. The wild card. With a history of generational length plans and strategies.

Let's add Mongolia to the alliance and the potential resources within it and well, we will likely soon see.
Click to expand...
Dangerous times.

I wouldn't mind a pan-european defence initiative, even if it means NATO (read, Canada/US) is evacuated in favour of a more global organization to include, prominently, ANZAC, ROK, and JAP. But a fracturing of continental Europe seems extremely dangerous to me, from a long-term perspective.

And the fact that it would come as a consequence of NATO's inaction just highlights how untenable and irresponsible it is for NATO to stand idle right now.
 
Gee. I can imagine all sorts of nuclear powers are lining up to commit themselves to be drawn into a nuclear war by entering into a joint defence pact with non-nuclear powers.
 
I don't understand why so many Flag Officers are so close to the front lines.

This is like the 5th or 6 RUS General I've heard that has died in the conflict. Take it all with a grain of salt, because of fog of war and such.

I'm not some tactical genius, but I would think any first year Officer Cadet would be told not to put the top of your command in harms way.
 
gryphonv said:
I don't understand why so many Flag Officers are so close to the front lines.

This is like the 5th or 6 RUS General I've heard that has died in the conflict. Take it all with a grain of salt, because of fog of war and such.

I'm not some tactical genius, but I would think any first year Officer Cadet would be told not to put the top of your command in harms way.
Click to expand...
They have a very different command culture.

NCOs - and JOs, from what I gather - are not empowered to take initiative. So when issues arise, Snr Os have to move forward to unfuck whatever is going on. That trickles up the chain and brings GOFOs on the battlefield. I'd presume they're still far from the frontline, but so are Ukrainian SOFs.
 
Condemning countries that care more about money than “democratic values,” Danilov said some Western states are on Kiev’s side, but others “left us hanging at a tough moment,” and their names will live in infamy.

Danilov dismissed a “bunch of international organizations created after the Second World War” that “don’t affect anything, but only express concern.”

“Ukraine needs to make a new defensive alliance, which must include a country with nuclear weapons. Today that is Great Britain,” he said.
Click to expand...

I have been looking for that content since I saw it online a couple of hours ago. It was referenced on one of the JEF links but then disappeared.
 
gryphonv said:
I don't understand why so many Flag Officers are so close to the front lines.

This is like the 5th or 6 RUS General I've heard that has died in the conflict. Take it all with a grain of salt, because of fog of war and such.

I'm not some tactical genius, but I would think any first year Officer Cadet would be told not to put the top of your command in harms way.
Click to expand...
@TacticalTea already pointed out some of it, but the Russians have no real method of communicating accurate reports across much distance at all.

Also Russian formations have oddly inflated rank for their actual size. Where most would put a Lt Col, the Russians will put a Colonel or higher.

From what I have tallied this is at least the 11th GO/FO who got FRP’d the hard way. Well over 25 Colonels.

It will make the job much easier for Russians Department of Veteran Affairs. ;)
 
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