The Apache Longbow

[CanadianBoy92]

Who thinks that this copter should be put in our fleet of our airforce. 


Mission
Conducts rear, close, and shaping missions including deep precision strike. Conducts distributed operations, precision strikes against relocatable targets, and provides armed reconnaissance when required in day, night, obscured battlefield and adverse weather conditions.

Entered Army Service
AH-64 (1984); AH-64D (1998)

Description and Specifications
The AH-64 Apache is The Army's heavy division/corps attack helicopter. The AH-64D Longbow remanufacture effort incorporates a millimeter wave fire control radar (FCR), radar frequency interferometer (RFI), fire-and-forget radar-guided HELLFIRE missile and cockpit management and digitization enhancements. The combination of the FCR, RFI, and the advanced navigation and avionics suite of the aircraft provide increased situational awareness, lethality and survivability.
  Combat mission speed: 167 mph
  Combat range: 300 miles
  Combat endurance: 2.5 hours
  Length: 49 ft 5 in
  Mission weight: 16,600 lbs
  Armament: HELLFIRE missiles, 2.75" rockets and 30mm chain gun
  Crew: 2 (pilot and co-pilot gunner)







We should get some of these aircraft from the US to support our infanteer movements and support.




Bibliography: army fact file  The us army website.

 

[big bad john]

How do we pay for and get the funds and people to support them?  Please don't  just come up with a wish list, but concrete ideas.  You have been told before.  Please follow the advice you were given.

 

[CanadianBoy92]

With Gen Hiller on a shopping spree it wouldn't be that hard to fund them.  Also the support would come from the ground forces when they tell you that they feel safer with those things in the air.  I'm sure we could afford a fleet of 10 combat Helios, and if we can't then thats pretty sad.

 

[PPCLI MCpl]

CanadianBoy92, I don't think you have a clue what it means to "support" a fleet of attack helicopters.

Try looking around, absorb some information, formulate a plausible idea, then post a suggestion.

And I mean that as friendly advice.

 

[CanadianBoy92]

Do you guys mean "public support" cause if so i dint think the public will have a big fit if we get 10 Helios.





Thanks though for the friendly advice

 

[PPCLI MCpl]

No, we mean "logistical support."

Also, see my responce to your nuclear submarine post.

It is not a matter of buying coolio kit off the shelf.  The process involved is tedious and time consuming.

Please use the search function, you will find this site bursting with excellent information.

 

[big bad john]

Support means a logistical tail, i.e. ame's, avionic techs, air weapons techs, etc..  parts..... and much more.  I come from the United Kingdom, where we just activated some Apache Squadrons.  Let me tell you it took years from when we took position of the aircraft until they were active.  It cost hundreds of millions of pounds over budget also.  Something I don't think Canada  can afford.  

Not to be rude but please engage your brains critical thinking a little more and your cut and paste a lot less.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I don't think he understands that the next time he is given a Warning he is Banned. He would know that if he read the conduct guidelines.

 

[Michael OLeary]

canadianboy92,

Not long ago there was a thread in the Air Force forum (http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/35100.0/all.html) where some posters were tossing out their personal choices for CF-18 replacement aircraft without having done any homework on procurement processes or the bigger picture of employment and logistics.

I inserted this post to help them wrap their heads around the most basic level of understanding that these issues exist, and that they are are real world considerations.  Hee it is again for your to add to your list of factors to consider when proposing new equipment ideas for the CF.

Thank you.

Wizard,

before you get into a debate with the pilots comparing two airframes, why don't you lay out your entire appreciation for us:

Tasks and roles to be conducted.
Aircrew training requirements.
Aircraft maintenance lifecycle.
Number of airframes required, based on your assessment of tasks.
Expected lifespan of "new" airframes, compared to expectation of available manufacturer and principal nation support.
Requirements and costs to retrain and retool all required maintenance facilities and maintainers.
Infrastructure costs to support new aircraft in all Wing locations.
Costs to replace all CF-18 specific support assets with new version.

As you can see, simply comparing statistics and unit costs doesn't quite scratch the surface of what you are proposing based on "As long as the cost balance was positive how could it be a mistake." I'll add new points if I think of any. I am sure the pilots and flight line maintainers (Offr and NCM) on the forum can suggest a few more that must be considered in developing a proposal for new aircraft.

 

[cody630]

man the apaches have hell fire missles that can destroy abd thank ever made

 

[The_Falcon]

man the apaches have hell fire missles that can destroy abd thank ever made

STOP NOW WHILE YOU ARE AHEAD!!!

 

[cody630]

if you go on google right now you will see the Apache and its fire power we need more than just transport helicopters we need attack helicopter if you don;t like my idea about buy some Apaches you come up with some ideas on what to buy

 

[Michael OLeary]

cody630,

STOP!

Suck back, reload and start reading.  If you start one more thread, then you will immediately go on a level of the warning system which will not let you post.

If you want to start proposing new aircraft programs, start with these points:

Tasks and roles to be conducted.
Aircrew training requirements.
Aircraft maintenance lifecycle.
Number of airframes required, based on your assessment of tasks.
Expected lifespan of "new" airframes, compared to expectation of available manufacturer and principal nation support.
Requirements and costs to retrain and retool all required maintenance facilities and maintainers.
Infrastructure costs to support new aircraft in all Wing locations.

As you can see, simply comparing statistics or unit costs doesn't quite scratch the surface of what you are proposing....

 

[The_Falcon]

Holy crap C&P within an hour of registering, is that a record?

 

[big bad john]

No, unfortunately.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Some have been banned in less time...

 

[Franko]

Can you say 5 minutes and 1 post?    :

Regards

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

I was going to post a suggestion on which helo I'd go for over the Apache.  However, after reading the entire thread I feel a better use of my time would be to tuck my head back into my shell in and watch the rounds come in.

I remember my first warning on these forums about talking out of my butt with no info. to back anything up... good times. :skull:

 

[Blue Max]

Cody630, since you like using Google and are probable out of school for summer why don't you use the internet to investigate:
1. Why do the US Marines use the AH-1Z?
2. Why is it that the AH-1Z vs Apache would be a better fit for the Canadian armed forces?

Can you answer these questions? 

 

[aesop081]

Cody630, since you like using Google and are probable out of school for summer why don't you use the internet to investigate:
1. Why do the US Marines use the AH-1Z?
2. Why is it that the AH-1Z vs Apache would be a better fit for the Canadian armed forces?

Can you answer these questions? 

How about researching where the money would come from ?

Its nice to want things.....but we have lots to get so prioritize.  We can buy all the Apaches we want...but we also need to get them to where the missions are....for that you need airlift/sealift.  You need people to fly and maintain them...this all costs money and take time.