RCAF Reserve - Capability-Based Recruiting

[OldSolduer]

My occupation has had a couple of Ptes with PhDs, they didn't stay past the first contract in the occupation.

So why were they not offered a commission?

And to add we can't have privates being smarter and knowing more than their supervisors "Sniff Sniff" (sarcasm)

 

[daftandbarmy]

So why were they not offered a commission?

And to add we can't have privates being smarter and knowing more than their supervisors "Sniff Sniff" (sarcasm)

I had a couple of NCMs in my unit with advanced degrees. I asked one of them why they didn't go for a commission.

He gave me a long suffering look and said "Sir, if you had the choice of hanging out in our Mess or your Mess, which one would you choose?"

I admitted that he had a point there

 

[Furniture]

So why were they not offered a commission?

And to add we can't have privates being smarter and knowing more than their supervisors "Sniff Sniff" (sarcasm)

My occupation does not have an officer equivalent, it had nothing to do with supervisors trying to keep them in their place... One of them worked for me for a time, and I encouraged them to commission.

One went on to commission into an officer occupation related to his training, and the other I believe released from the CAF after discovering what we do is not what she wanted to do.

 

[crypto_fan]

How many ex members receive a shock, vs. the stories people tell about how much a "shock" they'll get?

I've been lots of places in the CAF where getting things done promptly is the name of the game. It's always important to remember that the CAF is far larger thana couple of units.

Well aware the CAF is large. Just my experience so far. All I keep getting told is "the speed of government". Not once has my CoC said, oh you are right. Nope. Just hey, quell your expections this is not the private sector, cool your jets. So many not all departnments/units/dets are like that, but it has unfortunately been my experience.

 

[Furniture]

Well aware the CAF is large. Just my experience so far. All I keep getting told is "the speed of government". Not once has my CoC said, oh you are right. Nope. Just hey, quell your expections this is not the private sector, cool your jets. So many not all departnments/units/dets are like that, but it has unfortunately been my experience.

It depends on what it is you are expecting them to change, if it's CAF/DND/GoC policy there is nothing anyone in your CoC can do to change things. If it's stuff within the CoCs power to change, then fair enough, they should be fixing the problems.

 

[crypto_fan]

It depends on what it is you are expecting them to change, if it's CAF/DND/GoC policy there is nothing anyone in your CoC can do to change things. If it's stuff within the CoCs power to change, then fair enough, they should be fixing the problems.

Even if they have no power, they could see the a problem with the speed of government. Just not caring, even if you "can't do anything" is apathy towards the situation and why things never change.

 

[crypto_fan]

My occupation does not have an officer equivalent, it had nothing to do with supervisors trying to keep them in their place... One of them worked for me for a time, and I encouraged them to commission.

One went on to commission into an officer occupation related to his training, and the other I believe released from the CAF after discovering what we do is not what she wanted to do.

Same with my trade, no officer equivalent. Also no recruiter suggested it, perhaps because of the trade I work in? Not sure. I have my degree and was senior in my position before I left to serve, as it was a dream. Dream is not so slowly dimming.

 

[Furniture]

Even if they have no power, they could see the a problem with the speed of government. Just not caring, even if you "can't do anything" is apathy towards the situation and why things never change.

Do you know that your bosses are apathetic, and aren't frustrated by the system and working to change what they can from within?

Part of being a leader is learning that you don't complain to your people about your bosses/the system. You acknowledge people's frustrations with the system, but you don't feed their frustrations by adding your own to them.

Another part of being a leader is trying to manage your people's expectations. Making suggestions/promises that can't be achieved is a great way to disillusion people.

Same with my trade, no officer equivalent. Also no recruiter suggested it, perhaps because of the trade I work in? Not sure. I have my degree and was senior in my position before I left to serve, as it was a dream. Dream is not so slowly dimming.

I know in the case of the one that worked for me, they wanted to get practical experience in meteorology rather than just theoretical. Spending a couple of years making relatively decent money, and gaining practical experience isn't the worst thing that can happen to someone. From what I was told, the other didn't know what the actual work of the occupation was, and found it was not to their taste. Met Techs forecast, but at the MCpl/Sgt level not as Ptes, Ptes observe, brief, and do aerological support(weather balloons).

Recruiters are put in an impossible position. By virtue of posting message they are expected to become an expert in 100 different occupations, as well as able to read people's intentions.

 

[PuckChaser]

Same with my trade, no officer equivalent. Also no recruiter suggested it, perhaps because of the trade I work in? Not sure. I have my degree and was senior in my position before I left to serve, as it was a dream. Dream is not so slowly dimming.

Your trade doesn't need an officer equivalent. A Sig O/CELE with some training can function in the managerial/policy oversight capacity while Cyber Ops have the actual technical ability with the 1s and 0s. This is common throughout the CAF where officers can specialize early in their career in a broad trade and then their horizons expand as they are promoted. NCMs have the opposite trajectory where you are super specialized and broaden at the WO+ rank bands.

Ultimately if folks want to push buttons and actually do the thing, be an NCM. If you want to manage people and have an influence on policy, be an Officer. Buttonology is enhancing but not critical to successful officers.

 

[childs56]

Your trade doesn't need an officer equivalent. A Sig O/CELE with some training can function in the managerial/policy oversight capacity while Cyber Ops have the actual technical ability with the 1s and 0s. This is common throughout the CAF where officers can specialize early in their career in a broad trade and then their horizons expand as they are promoted. NCMs have the opposite trajectory where you are super specialized and broaden at the WO+ rank bands.

Ultimately if folks want to push buttons and actually do the thing, be an NCM. If you want to manage people and have an influence on policy, be an Officer. Buttonology is enhancing but not critical to successful officers.

Pilots push buttons don't they and pull on stick thingys while going pew pew, pewpewpewpew.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Pilots push buttons don't they and pull on stick thingys while going pew pew, pewpewpewpew.

Yes, but pilots are pilots. They'll be the first to tell you that

 

[dimsum]

Pilots push buttons don't they and pull on stick thingys while going pew pew, pewpewpewpew.

Sure, in the earlier part of their careers. Some other officer trades are like that too.

But, most officers don't do a whole career as button-pushers. They go into staff jobs, take on more admin/leadership type roles at tactical units, etc.

 

[crypto_fan]

Your trade doesn't need an officer equivalent. A Sig O/CELE with some training can function in the managerial/policy oversight capacity while Cyber Ops have the actual technical ability with the 1s and 0s. This is common throughout the CAF where officers can specialize early in their career in a broad trade and then their horizons expand as they are promoted. NCMs have the opposite trajectory where you are super specialized and broaden at the WO+ rank bands.

Ultimately if folks want to push buttons and actually do the thing, be an NCM. If you want to manage people and have an influence on policy, be an Officer. Buttonology is enhancing but not critical to successful officers.

I would disagree with you. As those in sig o/ CELE are not aware often of the world in cyber. Seriously. People in positions to make critical decisions are ones with the lack of experience in the field. We are seeing it now with PLARS and training plans.

 

[crypto_fan]

Do you know that your bosses are apathetic, and aren't frustrated by the system and working to change what they can from within?

Part of being a leader is learning that you don't complain to your people about your bosses/the system. You acknowledge people's frustrations with the system, but you don't feed their frustrations by adding your own to them.

Another part of being a leader is trying to manage your people's expectations. Making suggestions/promises that can't be achieved is a great way to disillusion people.


I know in the case of the one that worked for me, they wanted to get practical experience in meteorology rather than just theoretical. Spending a couple of years making relatively decent money, and gaining practical experience isn't the worst thing that can happen to someone. From what I was told, the other didn't know what the actual work of the occupation was, and found it was not to their taste. Met Techs forecast, but at the MCpl/Sgt level not as Ptes, Ptes observe, brief, and do aerological support(weather balloons).

Recruiters are put in an impossible position. By virtue of posting message they are expected to become an expert in 100 different occupations, as well as able to read people's intentions.

I have been a leader my friend. Spent quite a few years as a tech lead, thanks. Manage people's expectations, sure, being a part of the problem. I had paperwork sit on my chains desk after them pushing me to get in on time. So it is one thing to manage expectations, it is another to say, ah government, I have no idea why so slow, yet be apart of the problem yourself.

Practical experience, okay. Many years in the industry is not practical experience? I didn't come in off the street with no experience. I agree with getting experience if you have none. But when you are having to explain topics to your CoC, something seems off, don't you think?

 

[dimsum]

I would disagree with you. As those in sig o/ CELE are not aware often of the world in cyber. Seriously. People in positions to make critical decisions are ones with the lack of experience in the field. We are seeing it now with PLARS and training plans.

That seems more like a “leadership not listening to the SMEs” issue, not a “the leader should also have the tactical experience in this field” issue.

Separate example - there are no SAR Tech officers, so the leadership has to listen to the senior SAR Techs.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I would disagree with you. As those in sig o/ CELE are not aware often of the world in cyber. Seriously. People in positions to make critical decisions are ones with the lack of experience in the field. We are seeing it now with PLARS and training plans.

Having just gone through Sig O DP1, I will partially disagree.

Its part of the curriculum now to do CCSE as part of the DP1 Qual. Its a prerequisite for attending the residency portion. So if it's a "I have no clue... I'm not a cyber person.." that is going to be a legacy training issue.

We are also developing more follow on cyber training for the DP2 side and are looking at including that in parts of FSOC and CAF Net Ops.

Also, having been a former Sig Op turned IS Tech first before flipping, I realise now that it wasn't ignorance, nor indifference that the "ossifers" were showing when I was trying to get them to get on our level; it was quite the opposite.

Your average Lt/Capt Sig O/CELE is more of an Operations officer that a technical officer. That is often by design. You're managing teams of technicians and specialists much like a unit Ops would. You're there to understand the Comd's Intent and develop CoAs to fill that intent. That means having a general knowledge of why and what, and a little bit of how. The arcs of the RCCS are 180° in the capabilities we provide, therefore, the Signals Officer needs to be well rounded, vice being hyper specialized.

I will not endorse the shitty staff work you experienced, as that is just garbage leadership; but I will contest that the "lack of knowledge and experience" bit. I have had to light a fire under some of my colleagues for the same reasons. That's a performance issue though, not a systemic broad brush issue within the trade.

As a leader, if you are making critical decisions and are not seeking out knowledge for yourself or from others, you're going to wear it and it is wholly on you for not doing so.

That said, I trust my people to acknowledge that I am there to coordinate and support their efforts to the best of my abilities, and part of that is knowing that I don't know what I don't know; so tell me if I'm about to step on my tail.

Now this leads me to the crux of this thread's purpose. If we need folks with skills and experience that are transferable, let them move into the lateral positions we need them in. Its a lot easier to teach a specialist to Army than it is to teach the Army to specialize. That begins with re looking at the "ground floor mail room" mentality that exists within CFRG/CMP