Paul Jackson- The A 400 is a better plane

[Hawker]

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists/Jackson_Paul/2005/11/29/1328160.html

Jackson slags the idea of quickly procuring the C 130 as our new transport plane.
I'm apt to view with a jaundiced eye a lot of what Paul Jackson says, so I wanted to get the opinion of the collective intelligence of this forum.

 

[KevinB]

Okay so he was the Calgary Officers Mess - talking to
  Reserve Officers -- none of whom are pilots

The A400 is not even BUILT YET - at least he could have looked at the C17


  The who article is tripe -- The US is till buying C130J's and so are others  - it is a TACTICAL airlift platform not a strategic one.


Sigh.

Another one who is simply attacking the issue of the Liberal buy rather than the fact it is the one item we need and now.

I dont like the Liberals at all but I refuse to put blinders on and see that just because it is supported by the MD and Cabinet it is a BAD idea.  Thinking like that is plain stupid.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

A bunch of retired Reservists harrumphing away on current procurement plans is hardly indicative of the common view of current serving members.  Once again, as with other things, those who don't know should STFU.  The fact of the matter is, as explored in other threads, the C-130J is here now, is in service with allies (who haven't IIRC found too much wrong with it) and is available on a short timeline.  The A400 is still a drawing on a French designer's Strasbourg sketch pad.

I just love the attempt to stir the pot and link this purchase to some sort of scandal.  Ye Gods, I'm beginning to loathe the media!

 

[Infanteer]

Who is Paul Jackson?  :

 

[Cloud Cover]

Who is Paul Jackson?   :

Sigh... he came back from the mighty missisip' with his bro'.

 

[Hawker]

Who is Paul Jackson?   :

Jackson is the editor of the Calgary Sun.

 

[KevinB]

Right up there with Terrorism Expert Eric M -- is the Aviation Critic Paul J.

 

[George Wallace]

A case of my Ex-Military Vs your Ex-Military:

It just so happens Lockheed's plane is being pushed by CFN Consultants, a huge Ottawa lobbying firm made up of former senior defence officers and other ex-bureaucrats.

 

[Kirkhill]

Oh dear - Why did it have to be the Calgary Mess?

As George says "my Generals vs your Generals" ...

And as to rolling out the back door into the fight - while that might appeal to some inf and armd types I can't think it would appeal to the Air Force types trying to maximize the life expectancy of their 16 to 20 aircraft.

Maybe we were better off when defence WASN'T an election issue  :

 

[canuck101]

I am no military person myself but i was able to research and find out that there is not even one A400 built yet.We would not be the first customer for it anyway and would have to wait a lot longer then three years to get one.Journalists due have to graduate from university right that means they know how to do research, I guess not in these case.There is only one choice and that is the c-130j

 

[COBRA-6]

An unproven, still in the design stage aircraft is better than an in-service aircraft with a 50+ year history, that our allies are currently using in theatre??

I'm no aviation expert, but how long does it take for a design to go from prototype, through certifications to production??

 

[couchcommander]

I am no military person myself but i was able to research and find out that there is not even one A400 built yet.We would not be the first customer for it anyway and would have to wait a lot longer then three years to get one.Journalists due have to graduate from university right that means they know how to do research, I guess not in these case.There is only one choice and that is the c-130j

Heh, three words, "Sun Media Corp". And come on, research wouldn't necessarily lead to the required "Liberals eat babies" conclusion, so why do it? The National Post and all the Sun newspapers (Calgary included) seem to have gotten along just fine without it for years. No reason to start now.

 

[George Wallace]

We crrently are in need of "Tactical Lift".  Aircraft that can land on short and not so perfect Landing Strips.

The A 400 is "Strategic Lift" and requires longer, well maintained runways. 

These facts are more important than any of the other nonsense being spewed about carrying a fully kitted LAV.  One fully kitted LAV has as much chance as a partially kitted LAV landing in a hostile environment by its lonesome.  Let's get real.

 

[Lance Wiebe]

Actually, George, I think it can be safely argued that we need both.  But, as far as I can figure it, the A400 is more of a competitor for the C17 than the C130.  When (if) we decide to buy strategic, maybe then we can talk about which plane is better, and compare apples to apples.....

 

[George Wallace]

Lance

100% with you on that, but this article is coming off stating that we need one and not the other.   The ignorance of the writer is making a large issue out of a non-issue, in the attempt to cloud the subject in the eyes of those less in the know.  Would he have an agenda, or is he just playing an Anarchist game?

 

[Kirkhill]

Not to cloud the discussion any further, but before we go talking about comparing apples with apples the problem with comparing airlifters is that there are no apples to compare.

By that I mean that apples to apples suggests the situation where a specification has been written and there are two or more aircraft that have been built to fit that specification.  Once upon a time that may have been true but now it has been so long since such competitions have been held that the market place has weeded out competitors as specific jobs have resulted in specific aircraft being broadly selected by specific companies and air forces.

Now what we have is not a series of steps with three or four aircraft found on each step, what we have is long ramp of options that starts not with the C-17, or even the AN-124 or the C-5 but with the Boeing 747-400 ERF (recently supplanted by the 747-8F) and continues down through those other aircraft past the Il-76, the A400, C130J-30 and C130J to the C27J and the C295.

The 747 is put at the top of my list because it has the largest deck area capable of supporting vehicles and the new models have a nose door. 

Back on topic though...regardless of all other considerations the biggest problem for the A-400M, especially in light of all the available competition on the ramp, is that it isn't flying yet. All the other stuff is.

 

[COBRA-6]

The 747 is put at the top of my list because it has the largest deck area capable of supporting vehicles and the new models have a nose door. 

If the AF won't fly the Airbus into theatre, what makes you think they'd fly in a 747??  ;D

 

[Infanteer]

It lilypads - instead of having your C-130J's and C-17's do long-hauls from Montreal or Edmonton, why not have them move stuff from Diego Garcia or Mirage that is lifted en masse by something like the 747 ERF (which is very impressive in what it can move).

 

[Hawker]

http://server09.densan.ca/archivenews/051129/cal/051129as.htm

I guess it's not just the Sun...maybe it's both papers here in Calgary.   This writer is with the U of C.  He actually had me listening to him untill he referneced buying socks from Britain in 1922.  What?!?

 

[Infanteer]

It's too bad Mr University of Calgary research associate didn't research this:

New Herc plane passes pilot's test
By STEPHANIE RUBEC, PARLIAMENTARY BUREAU

A veteran Canadian Forces pilot flying for the U.S. Marine Corps on an exchange program yesterday mounted a heated defence of the newly designed Hercules transport plane on the Defence Department's wish list.

Capt. Steve Lamarche slammed defence industry insiders who've labelled the Hercules C-130J a lemon and he dismissed two Pentagon reports that have labelled it "unfit" for service.

Lamarche has spent 500 hours flying the new C-130Js with the Marine Corps in North Carolina.

VETERAN FLYER

He's clocked another 4,500 hours flying Canada's older Hercules models during his 16 years in the Canadian Forces, first as a navigator and since 1998 as a pilot.


"I truly enjoy the new aircraft for its reliability and technological advantages over the older aircraft I used to fly back home," said Lamarche. "The aircraft has performed extremely well in all conditions."

Today, the Canadian military will ask ministers who sit on a special cabinet committee to approve the purchase of $12.2 billion in aircraft, including a new search and rescue fixed-wing plane, troop-transport helicopters and replacements for Canada's 32 Hercules.

Military brass and defence industry insiders think only the new C-130J will meet the requirements of a new transport plane fleet because of budget constraints.

A Pentagon report published last year found the aircraft was "unfit for duty" -- unable to drop heavy equipment, operate well in cold weather or perform combat search-and-rescue missions.

Lamarche said the C-130J did perform those kinds of missions.