Officer to NCM

[Devlin]

So here's a question for all the admin experts on the board here. I am reserve officer (2Lt.), that has decided I want to change from the officer ranks and go down to being a NCM. I have completed my BOTP(R) only. My question's are:

1. Is this even possible?
2. If so, what is the process to follow?
3. What are the repurcussions of following through with this?

My reasons for doing this are many. Primarily, I joined for a different experience. Well, I'm in a managment position on civy street, and don't really want to be a manager in the reserve world as well. No I wasn't misled during the recruiting process or anything like that. The job just isn't living up to my expectations. I really enjoy working with the troops in my unit, and do not want to be promoted into an office and never see them or the field again.

Any help/advice would be appreciatted.

 

[NMPeters]

I tried to help someone do this about a year and a half ago and it seemed to spin everyone into a tizzy that someone would want to give up their commission. The long and the short of it is, "they" (NDHQ) couldn't figure out how to do it. That may have changed since then. I don't know. My friend ended up just releasing and was so frustrated at the end of the process he didn't bother re-enrolling. There are two options:

1. Write a memo to your CO explaining that you wish to give up your commission, and why. He needs to forward it up the chain of command until it gets to someone here at NDHQ to figure it out;

2. Release and re-enrol as an NCM.

Sorry I can't be any more help, but it was just a nightmare for my friend when he tried.

 

[buzgo]

There was a Res Sig Officer in Toronto (709 Comm Regt) some time ago - maybe early 90's - who gave up her comission. She became a lineman. I think that she had been a Captain and ended up as a Corporal. I can't for the life of me remember her name or the details of the story, but I don't think that she had to quit and re-enrol or anything.

Maybe someone remembers this?

 

[Eowyn]

I really enjoy working with the troops in my unit, and do not want to be promoted into an office and never see them or the field again.

Any help/advice would be appreciated.

I know it's your decision, but as a fellow Log O, I go to the field all of the time.  I see the troops a lot, too.  In fact, the OC, 2 IC and Pl Comd, should always interact with the troops.  In the staff positions, in Garrison, you do spend some time in the office.

Good luck.

 

[Navalsnpr]

I was a CIC Officer for three years before I got into the RegF.

The steps I had to go through were as follows:

1. Release from the Reserves to the Sup List
2. Resign my Commission and be struck off the Sup List
3. Enrol and get sworn in.

Hope that may help a bit.

Give the recruiting centre a call, they probably would have the best answers.

 

[Big Foot]

I believe the CIC to NCM is a bit different that Reserve Officer to NCM. I believe it is different for Primary Reserve Officer than for Supplemental Reserve Officer(this being, to the best of my knowledge, the category CIC officers fall into) to change to NCM. But as was suggested before, call CFRC, talk to your chain of command, talk to anyone who might know anything about this. It is likely (like everything else) a long and drawn out process but if you feel called to be an NCM, all the power to ya. Officer isn't for everyone and if you're not comfortable there, do what you can to change to where you're happy.

 

[Navalsnpr]

I believe the CIC to NCM is a bit different that Reserve Officer to NCM. I believe it is different for Primary Reserve Officer than for Supplemental Reserve Officer(this being, to the best of my knowledge, the category CIC officers fall into) to change to NCM.

It may be observed that way, but the main issue is that you can't have an NCM running around with a Commission. The thing that makes this a touchy item to do is the method one goes through to resign the Commission. Thats really it.

The commissioning scroll that an Officer gets in the Reg Force, Primary Reserve and CIC are identical and carry the same duties and responsibilities with it.

Oh yeah, even though you resign your Commission, you still get to keep your scroll!!

 

[OatmealSavage]

Wonder how they calculate your TI for subsequent NCM promotions. Does TI as an LT count when you are to be promoted to Sgt? Do you only need the trade qualification course, or do you need time in rank as a MCpl?

 

[stompintom24]

Devlin,

As stated above, submit a memo to your adjt. He will discuss the possibilities with you and will sort out your paperwork. Also, if you pass your CAP(R) this summer you will probably be qualified for the Delegated Authority Promotion System, which would mean a pretty much instant promotion to MCpl once you are in the ranks.

 

[Pte. Bloggins]

There was a Res Sig Officer in Toronto (709 Comm Regt) some time ago - maybe early 90's - who gave up her comission. She became a lineman. I think that she had been a Captain and ended up as a Corporal. I can't for the life of me remember her name or the details of the story, but I don't think that she had to quit and re-enrol or anything.

Maybe someone remembers this?

Yup, she's at my unit. She's currently a Sgt.

 

[PViddy]

I know a couple of people that enrolled as CIC that went regforce. However, they were only OCdt.'s like myself, probably less paperwork because they didn't hold a commission as of yet.

As far as i know (which isn't much being an OCdt.  ;D ) the CIC is just a seperate component of the Reserve force and the biggest Officer corps in the CF.

PV

 

[Devlin]

To all who answered my initial post, thanks for your input/advice. I just put the question to my OC and my Adjt today who are both spinning a little but support my decision. I just posed the question to them a few minutes ago and they are in the initial inquiry stages to find out what has to happen. I'll keep the group here up to date as to what happens. If I am able to make this happen I'll be going as a trucker.

 

[frank249]

I work in NDHQ writing enrolment policy and we have just had a big discussion about this issue.  The bottom line is that a member does not have to be released to 'resign their commission'.  They should put it in writing to signify that it is voluntary as the CF can not take away a commission unless it is the result of a courts martial.

 

[CombatMP265]

I'm making the switch on a CT from Gold to Green, and into a different trade. The reasons for doing so are a varied lot, each which I feel I will make me a better soldier and leader. But I'd like the experience from all Army.ca members to make my transition better.

1. Leadership - After acting in a Platoon Commander position I will be going into my training course with the mentality of "Lead by Example". Now personal and other forums advice tells me "Be the grey man" and "Ears open, mouth shut". How should I act on my trades courses if I have something like my PLQ written off for me? Do I be the one who constantly volunteers for course senior and make constant suggestions on howto improve things. Or do I hang back and not question decisions from less experienced soldiers who need to "learn by failure?".

2. Experience - Now, I'm not a big mouth or a "I used to...." kinda person. But how much should I keep advice from other soldiers. I want to reaffirm that my objective is not to hinder or "blade" others, but rather let them learn without an annoying voice in their ear going "you shoulda, you coulda, you would've..." that only acts as another voice to make them feel worse about their progress. So when is the time to advise/help vs. talk down to/berate.

3. Instructors - Again I know any good instructors I recieve will know their duty but knowing myself I will request a lot for any course we are on i.e. "MCpl, would it be acceptable if I took up a collection from the platoon to buy the field kitchen staff a 2-4?" "MCpl, would it be allowed if my/our section has a meeting at _____ hrs with your presences on the issue of _____?" My question is not to undermine an instructor but better my section/troop on a course.

4. Integration - Coming from an HQ position to the lower level on the CoC presents its own problem. Now I would never undermine a command when in a follower position. But how much should I express on how things actually run in a HQ when I get questioned about higher.Again I wouldn't cut the legs out from instructors or course officers (some who I might know personally), but should I with hold information or rather just omit certain (obvious) info that doesn't benefit anyone or merely stick to my own experience?

Submitted for anyones opinion.

 

[Chilly]

Dude first of all relax and slow down.

Okay First of all:

Leadership: Well according to your profile you only have two years, now that maybe as an officer and an unknown amount of time in the ranks but when on crse be a leader when you need to be and a follower when required.

Experience: Just be yourself, of course you don't want to be Mr. Know it all but if you have valuable experience, then that it would normally be acceptable, but once on Crse and guys know that you have some kind of military background then they may come to for advice.  Just make sure that you are giving them info that is RIGHT!!!

Instructors: just make sure that you don't step on anyones toes - they will know who you are and were you come from.  Again just be yourself - unless that gets you into trouble.

Integration: Always tell people the truth and ensure that you make sure that people understand that it of these personnel experiences that you are talking about. Furthermore never use names.  Actions such as that can and will get you into trouble.

It would also be helpful if you let us know what part of your training you are in/going into.

 

[aesop081]

With ony 2 years in, you are not exactly a shinning beacon of overwhelming experience.  Your instructors will likely have many more years of service than you.  If i was your instructor and you tried to pull the "i was a platoon comander and this is how its done" attitude, i would certainly make you pay full price !!!

 

[Zoomie]

Just to satisfy my curiosity and confusion - which way are you going?  Are you dropping your commission (profile says your an Lt) and becoming an NCM? 

If that is the case you might get SQ written off.  PLQ involves alot more than any Officer trade course has to offer.  An Officer does not teach drill, weapons class or other skills lectures - NCMs do.

Try and stay the grey man - if your instructors get a whiff of what you once were - expect a higher standard required.

 

[CombatMP265]

Just to satisfy my curiosity and confusion - which way are you going?  Are you dropping your commission (profile says your an Lt) and becoming an NCM? 

If that is the case you might get SQ written off.  PLQ involves alot more than any Officer trade course has to offer.  An Officer does not teach drill, weapons class or other skills lectures - NCMs do.

Try and stay the grey man - if your instructors get a whiff of what you once were - expect a higher standard required.

Yes, I'm currently an LT.

I talked to the recruiter and after looking at the PLQ course which my own people took, I told him I know I'd have to take some mods (The ones you'd mentioned) But I'd expect some written off (I've leaded recce's, section attacks, defensives, etc.). But it's it's up to the Prior Learning Assessment Board to decide that, I have no problem taking it again. I know what to do, but I think of it as a waste of Army money and time.

I will get SQ written off, as I've done everything on the course on my phase 2, and with other experience and courses outside the basic DP1.

 

[kratz]

The comments I have are incidental, so I may be out of my lane as this example is 100% in the reserve world. The  2Lt (A/Slt) from a Communications Regiment, who I knew remustered to a Naval trade is now a PO2 (Sgt). I  am not certain what he had written off, but I know that JLC (PLQ) was and that it took him close to ten years to reach his current rank. I hope this helps.

 

[orange.paint]

I knew a officer cadet who had his PLQ written off when he went to the ranks as a trooper.