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New Dress Regs 🤣

btrudy

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I did. I quoted your fucking post. After that, I added my comments that I wanted to. I used examples to demonstrate "punishing all for the failings of some" is a stupid idea, and also to demonstrate that individuals should be held accountable for their actions...not the rest of us. I did it to counter your point that I quoted; I thought the point was pretty clear - "punish the guilty, not the masses". If there are 50,000 "mess events" in the CAF in 2022, and 25 sexual assault / misconduct charges stem from those events and 100 cases of alcohol misuse/conduct, that's not a reason to not have mess events.

:rolleyes:
You "quoted my fucking post", but it certainly seems like you didn't bother reading it.

In said post, I mentioned it was important to keep in mind how much of our sexual misconduct has had alcohol as a contributing factor. What I did not do in said post was propose any course of action. Let alone any "wide brush punishment".

So, once again, quit the strawman arguments and maybe actually react to what people actually say. Don't fucking put words in my mouth.
 

btrudy

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Update; the new dress instructions will take effect in early Sept (date I've seen mentioned was the 6th, but I didn't see that verified from an official channel).

CDS / CFCPO Comments can be found on a video here.

A FAQ on the changes can be found here.

Some highlights to be expected:
  • The prohibition on hands in pockets is being removed.
  • Dress Instructions will be completely gender neutral (and for anyone paying attention, you've already been able to order both "mens" and "women's" pattern clothing from Logistiks since last year).
  • Hair style will essentially be unlimited, as long as it can be kept neatly groomed. Unnatural colours allowed, no length limit, etc. This includes facial hair, with no limit on styles (e.g. Goatees will now be allowed). Unlike the BEARDFORGEN, this policy applies to everyone, from recruitment to retirement.
  • Facial tattoos allowed.
  • Multiple earrings allowed in non-ceremonial dress, including chains between earrings on the same ear. Only single stud earrings allowed for ceremonial dress.
  • They're specifically calling out the stupid toque and gloves thing. Which hasn't even actually been included in the dress instructions themselves, but now it looks like they're going to be stopping local orders to that effect from being made up.
  • Sunglasses and transition lenses allowed for all orders of dress, including mirrored lenses.
  • Long nails allowed
As per usual, orders can be issued for bone fide operational or safety reasons; e.g. beards on ship still ain't going to happen (having seen the fit test study which was conducted, this is a good thing). Examples given include ordering long nails to be clipped for weapons handling, ordering scarves to cover neon hair, etc.

Still up in the air:
  • No comment on facial piercings, I'm pretty sure those will still be banned.
  • No comment on body piercings, I'm pretty sure those will be allowed.
  • No comment on nail polish, I'm pretty sure that'll be allowed
All in all, I'm pretty happy with the way things are shaping out. Although if they could surprise us with authorization of facial piercings, I'd be as happy as a clam.
 

Grimey

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The million dollar question: Will the presumed uptick in recruiting/retention due to loosening/shit-canning grooming standards outweigh those who see the same as the proverbial straw breaking the camels back and think WTF-is-this-I’m-slapping-in.

I’m sure this was focus grouped to death, right?
 

Kat Stevens

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Update; the new dress instructions will take effect in early Sept (date I've seen mentioned was the 6th, but I didn't see that verified from an official channel).

CDS / CFCPO Comments can be found on a video here.

A FAQ on the changes can be found here.

Some highlights to be expected:
  • The prohibition on hands in pockets is being removed.
  • Dress Instructions will be completely gender neutral (and for anyone paying attention, you've already been able to order both "mens" and "women's" pattern clothing from Logistiks since last year).
  • Hair style will essentially be unlimited, as long as it can be kept neatly groomed. Unnatural colours allowed, no length limit, etc. This includes facial hair, with no limit on styles (e.g. Goatees will now be allowed). Unlike the BEARDFORGEN, this policy applies to everyone, from recruitment to retirement.
  • Facial tattoos allowed.
  • Multiple earrings allowed in non-ceremonial dress, including chains between earrings on the same ear. Only single stud earrings allowed for ceremonial dress.
  • They're specifically calling out the stupid toque and gloves thing. Which hasn't even actually been included in the dress instructions themselves, but now it looks like they're going to be stopping local orders to that effect from being made up.
  • Sunglasses and transition lenses allowed for all orders of dress, including mirrored lenses.
  • Long nails allowed
As per usual, orders can be issued for bone fide operational or safety reasons; e.g. beards on ship still ain't going to happen (having seen the fit test study which was conducted, this is a good thing). Examples given include ordering long nails to be clipped for weapons handling, ordering scarves to cover neon hair, etc.

Still up in the air:
  • No comment on facial piercings, I'm pretty sure those will still be banned.
  • No comment on body piercings, I'm pretty sure those will be allowed.
  • No comment on nail polish, I'm pretty sure that'll be allowed
All in all, I'm pretty happy with the way things are shaping out. Although if they could surprise us with authorization of facial piercings, I'd be as happy as a clam.
So, are you happy now, or are there more uniformity issues no need to lift your leg on?
 

rmc_wannabe

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Cool. This is all good stuff. I will enforce/follow as it's written. Not going to change my personal appearance just because either.

A lot of folks are going to go off the deependwith this, as they can, but much like WEDFORGEN and BEARDFORGEN, reality will set in at the first field ex/ship deployment.

Dudes that balk at a 15 dollar haircut are in for a shock at how much that Chris Helmsworth flow costs to maintain at a salon. Same with the 200 dollar dye jobs that are needed so it doesn't look like shit. I also imagine that "combat scarf" is going to get pretty fucking annoying in 45 degree heat.

My folks have already been warned off that piercings come out when working with electricity, just like other jewelry. Safety as always.

This will just become normal, nothing is going to fall apart because of this.

We are still going to fail at recruitment and retention for many other reasons; new dress regs aren't going to be one of them.
 

TCM621

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The million dollar question: Will the presumed uptick in recruiting/retention due to loosening/shit-canning grooming standards outweigh those who see the same as the proverbial straw breaking the camels back and think WTF-is-this-I’m-slapping-in.

I’m sure this was focus grouped to death, right?

From the announcement:
Many discussions were required, including with the Defence Advisory Groups, Gender Advisors, with current military members as well as the next generation of Canadians who will follow us.


They asked a bunch of kids. Kids don't know shit about shit and have no place in the discussion. I know that makes me sound old and God damn it I don't care. Why don't I ask a bunch of 13 year olds about tax policy while I'm at it.
 

Jarnhamar

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Some highlights to be expected:
  • The prohibition on hands in pockets is being removed.

I have an idea how that will go.

Changes to the Canadian Forces Dress Instructions

The following text has been removed: “Behaviour such as chewing gum, slouching, placing hands in pockets, smoking or eating on the street and walking hand in hand, is forbidden.” Does that mean CAF members can now do all those things when in uniform?


Pursuant to QR&O 17.02, the deportment and appearance of all ranks, in uniform or when wearing civilian attire, shall on all occasions reflect credit on the CAF and the individual. It is the responsibility and duty of all CAF members to ensure that, while in uniform, they comport themselves in a manner which projects a positive military appearance. Leaders at all levels have a role to play in this regard.

Chain of Command: Hands in pockets doesn't project a positive military appearance.
 

mariomike

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They asked a bunch of kids. Kids don't know shit about shit and have no place in the discussion. I know that makes me sound old and God damn it I don't care.

Nice of them to ask.

I wonder if they asked taxpayers - whose support they depend on for salary and benefit improvements - what their opinion is, or if they even GAF?
 

daftandbarmy

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I am merely posting this clip because it is somewhat relevant to this topic and is, I feel, one of the best clips in the history of movies about any military. It's just too close to home.

And try not to laugh at about 1.35, I dare you ;)

 

FSTO

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I am merely posting this clip because it is somewhat relevant to this topic and is, I feel, one of the best clips in the history of movies about any military. It's just too close to home.

And try not to laugh at about 1.35, I dare you ;)

I couldn’t.
 

Eye In The Sky

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Late in 2021, the plan was to “phase in” the new dress regs over time. I’m glad that has been revisited and now it will just happen on Date X.

The proper controls will remain with the appropriate authority for operational and safety reasons. Eg - 4” gel nails that cost a mbr some of their pay will not be permitted during weapons handling.

I say stop making so much ado about it; it will be an order that applies to all CAF members, with the enforcement expected to be done by Officers, assisted by Warrant/Petty Officers and NCOs…no change to any of that. Rip the bandaid off so the changes just become “Ops normal”…

I’m more concerned the techs can turn wrenches 24hrs after burning the happy grass than I am if they have frosted tips and eye liner on.

Facial piercings; I can’t remember what was briefed on that. This info has been passed to unit CT level for some time now as it develops and is finalized but the last convo I was in on re: this was a few months ago and the info could be easily be OBE now.
 

MilEME09

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I’m more concerned the techs can turn wrenches 24hrs after burning the happy grass than I am if they have frosted tips and eye liner on.
You say that, but what chemicals are I'm that nail polish, or make up? How would it react with industrial chemicals found in a work shop? Look at contact lenses for example, seem safe, till someone accidentally mixes chemicals and melts the sense to their eye (it has happened). I personally for safety wouldn't allow facial makeup of any kind on the shop floor just because of that unknown.
 

Eye In The Sky

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I don’t think female techs are restricted on make up anymore than a HRA at the Claims cell is, but I could be wrong.

But I think you might have missed my point; saw the peas but missed the steak kind of thing…
 
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