MCSP

[starlight_745]

One of the changes in all this restructuring has been the introduction of MCSP training for medical staff.  I am familiar with the reserve MCSP ( not as much with the reg force version) and my question is how are units across the country delivering it and/or is there any changes on the horizon?  I think having a standardized continuing ed program is an excellent idea, however I question the value of many of the mods that came from Borden.  Doing CPR/BTLS has obvious benefits, my question pertains to the Mods 1-8 of death by power point.  How is it that a lecture on wound care can have no practical component?
Also, do we need to do every single mod every single year.  In a time where training dollars are tight, it seems like a lot of cash down the drain.  Why not have a rotating schedule for refreshers? (abd/msk one year, thorax/head&neck the next etc)

 

[Fraser.g]

It could easily become death by powerpoint. What has to happen is that the leadership has to use some imagination in augmenting the PPT presentations. I know that my troops are getting tired of BTLS every year. CPR has to be done to continue their certification. Hell I have to do it each year or teach it several times to keep my qualification up and I work in an ER.

I think that some of the MCSP could be written off if we were to bring our QL4 qualified pers into a hospital environment under proper supervision to continue the skills.
For example you have to maintain your skills for two years by doing the death by PPT and then once you have done that you are brought into the hospital environment to do some of those assessment and practical skills on real patients.
The perfect place to start would be a general surgical unit where they do thoracic and vascular surg.
Once there and with good evaluations they can move into an ER setting. A bit (allot) more chaotic, more acute patients, more diversity.

I think that this would also be a boon for retention. As it is the smart medics are getting board by doing the same scenarios and courses over and over again with no progression in sight.

 

[Armymedic]

We are all limited by time money and the experience of instructors.

But to me MCSP should be more experienced based ie on civilian amb, hospitals etc....but that takes MOU's and lots of preplanning and coordination, not to mention people free to go,  which our depleted manning is too tight to handle.

 

[Fraser.g]

It would certainly require coordination and pre-planning as well as experienced instructors but all this boils down to the will to do it and the support from the higher headquarters. If we have those two things then the rest will fall into place.

We are screaming for civilian qualified pers but to have them and not use them for the betterment of the rest of the unit would be foolish.

We have NO's, EMTs and MOs. Why don't we use them to the fullest and use their civilian network as well as the personnel?

As for the financial limitations all it would cost would be the man days once the infrastructure was worked out.

 

[Fraser.g]

I have attached a list of all the skills from MCSP that could be filled in a clinical practicum on a Surgical unit. The one I am proposing for my unit is a 47 bed general, thoracic and vascular surgical unit. 8 beds are close Observation.
Hmmmm sounds like the holding capability of a FSH.

What was it that was pounded into our skulls during leasership training....never lecture a skill.

GF

 

[Fraser.g]

Once upon a time every member of the CF was required to maintain our CPR and Standard First Aid under CFAO 9-5. I see that this has now been canceled.

Medics have to be qualified under the MCSP but what about all the other trades.

Does any one know what the new standard is. This is important when we are teaching First aid on BMQ courses and teaching first aid at other units.

 

[vr]

CFAO 9-5 has been replaced by a new draft policy on First Aid.  The exact title of which I am not geeky enough to have at home.  The requirement is the same:  all CF members must maintain a St Johns SFA & CPR-A (adult only) and renew every three years.  All pers in a medical role must maintain a CPR-C and renew annually.  There are also lesser requirements for civilian employees, cadets et al.

For BMQ out here we teach the 2 day SFA with CPR-A and the 5 compulsary mods, upper/lower limb #'s, chest inj, eyes, burns, CSR, enviro, personal care, rescue carries, wound care,secondary survey, and head/spinal/pelvic inj.  It may seem like a lot but most of these subj are barely touched on by the St Johns prog.  Certificates are not issued for the original courses or recerts; only UER entries.

We try to run recert courses for the Bde but get a minute response.  Which means that either FA is a low priority or most of the Bde has been in > 3 yrs.  I hope it's the former because the way money is going if units are not required in Orders to have a Med A for a range or activity they likely won't get one.

 

[Fraser.g]

If you can get the policy so that I can ref it to the other units in my area it would be appreciated.
The only reason that I know 9-5 is because I had to remind people that the O in CFAO was not for strong suggestion.

Grant

 

[HCA]

The MCSP program has just been updated with a new draft. (A couple of days ago) This draft incorporates the AMFR2 skills with the past skills. Of course this will take more time but this really is what the Med A's want and need. The challenge will be to deliver it in an interesting and challenging manner year after year.

 

[starlight_745]

HCA thanks for the info.  Would you be able to give us a brief outline if you have it i.e. how many training days, PO's covered etc.

 

[combat_medic]

Also, wouldn't it make a lot more sense to offer an exam for those who want to exempt the training? While not everyone has a civilian certification, many people will do their own refreshers on A&P on a regular basis and having them spend months of training time doing repitition is quite a waste of their time and training budget. If someone can be tested on their skills and pass with 80%+, should they not be able to be exempt for a year from the training and pursue more advanced training?

 

[Fraser.g]

It is my understanding that all members have to demonstrate the skill once a year to maintain their certifications. This does not mean that they have to sit through "death by powerpoint" every year to get their MCSP written off.

If they can not demonstrate the skill to an adequate level then it is time for a refresher. The only other time that the skills should have to be reviewed is when there is a change in protocol.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Ask the question "must the soldiers attend the presentations to complete MCSP?" and see what sort of response you get.

 

[vr]

The subjects & skills covered under the MCSP are not things we do often in the Reserves.  Unless you are employed in an MIR or do nursing civvy-side most members won't practice these skills at all.  Having the unit go through the program yearly is an opportunity to refresh our skills.  It is especially vital for members in outlaying units to attend yearly as they tend to do very little medical training if any at their home units.

The material doesn't have to be presented through those lame power-point presentations.  As long as the material is covered the instructors can present it as they see fit.  There are no boring lessons only boring instructors.

Now that AMFR-2 is part of MCSP do we still have to do BTLS which is complementry and not even taught on QL-3 anymore.  An enquiring mind wants to know. :dontpanic:

 

[Fraser.g]

I have herd that the MCSP standards are changing and skills are being added or at least modified for September. Has anyone seen the changes? What are they?

Are we converting over to AMFR2 exclusively and if so what are we doing with EMR and BTLS?

GF

 

[elliott.t]

Does MCSP replace MOCOMP or is it integrated into it, or what?
Terribly confusing from the outside.

 

[Brad Sallows]

MOCOMP is a general expression (maintenance of competency); MCSP (maintenance of clinical skills program) is a specific instance of a MOCOMP program.

 

[HCA]

As requested.

DRAFT of the new elements for the MCSP 04/05:
>
> a. Test Hearing;
> b. Test Vision;
> c. Monitor/Discontinue Intravenous Therapy;
> d. Practice Asepsis;
> e. Assist with Minor Surgery;
> f. AMFR2 Sessions:
> 1. Roles and Responsibilities, session 1;
> 2. Automated External Defibrillation, session 13;
> 3. Behavioural Emergencies, session 20;
> 4. Substance Abuse, session 24; and
> 5. Communication, session 25.
> g. Provide Emergency Treatment in a Nuclear,
> Biological or Chemical (NBC) Environment.

Additional information expected within the next few weeks after draft has been approved.

 

[vr]

Hopefully additional funding as well.... :dontpanic:

 

[Armymedic]

Is AMFR-2 the new advanced first aid?

if so then....

Are we converting over to AMFR2 exclusively and if so what are we doing with EMR and BTLS?

BTLS is still deployment standard for all reg force Med Techs, why would Res drop it?