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Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

Remius

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My personal take is still that the EA was not required but some testimony will likely give the PM a softer landing and if the current polling is correct it seems he hasn’t really been damaged by this. But the final report may change that.

My guess is the the commission will indicate that the threshold was not met despite the fact that the police had a complete breakdown but will add caveats that the current EA as written needs some serious updating. It would make sense since it was written in 1985. I’m not even sure why legislation like that doesn’t have a certain shelf life that requires revisiting.

One thing that is a positive, is that the EA checks and balances requiring an inquiry seem to be working as intended.
 

brihard

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My personal take is still that the EA was not required but some testimony will likely give the PM a softer landing and if the current polling is correct it seems he hasn’t really been damaged by this. But the final report may change that.

My guess is the the commission will indicate that the threshold was not met despite the fact that the police had a complete breakdown but will add caveats that the current EA as written needs some serious updating. It would make sense since it was written in 1985. I’m not even sure why legislation like that doesn’t have a certain shelf life that requires revisiting.

One thing that is a positive, is that the EA checks and balances requiring an inquiry seem to be working as intended.
I’m generally leaning in the direction of most of what you said. I definitely think the EA needs to be revisited, and that our definition of “threat to the security of Canada” needs updating to include economic threats by malign actors.

Agreed WRT checks and balances. As a result of invocation, we’ve seen the PM, several senior members of cabinet, and heads of several different agencies at various levels of government testify on the record and under oath, with thousands of documents tabled that would normally be tightly under wraps. The fact that all those people were compelled to testify and did so is an indicator of health in our rule of law.

I won’t pretend to have a clue about how this will play out politically. I’ll still be waiting for the report before I make up my mind.
 

Kat Stevens

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I’m generally leaning in the direction of most of what you said. I definitely think the EA needs to be revisited, and that our definition of “threat to the security of Canada” needs updating to include economic threats by malign actors.

Agreed WRT checks and balances. As a result of invocation, we’ve seen the PM, several senior members of cabinet, and heads of several different agencies at various levels of government testify on the record and under oath, with thousands of documents tabled that would normally be tightly under wraps. The fact that all those people were compelled to testify and did so is an indicator of health in our rule of law.

I won’t pretend to have a clue about how this will play out politically. I’ll still be waiting for the report before I make up my mind.
“Oh, we’ll I guess it wasn’t that bad”. Roll over and bite the pillow.
 

Kirkhill

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They all are. The are all beholden to and mouthpieces for 'the centre' (PMO), which JT's dad really got going. At the provincial level, they're the same. When she was SolGen, Sylvia Jones was noted for being less than whelming. I'm expecting the same now that she is in charge of Health.

I don't have a huge problem with central management - somebody's gotta be in charge, but the PMO is full of non-elected people who run the joint.

Might want to look up Keith Davey Rainmaker
 

Halifax Tar

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My personal take is still that the EA was not required but some testimony will likely give the PM a softer landing and if the current polling is correct it seems he hasn’t really been damaged by this. But the final report may change that.

My guess is the the commission will indicate that the threshold was not met despite the fact that the police had a complete breakdown but will add caveats that the current EA as written needs some serious updating. It would make sense since it was written in 1985. I’m not even sure why legislation like that doesn’t have a certain shelf life that requires revisiting.

One thing that is a positive, is that the EA checks and balances requiring an inquiry seem to be working as intended.

A very balanced stance. We share space at the bar.
 

FSTO

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Several commentators have said it was refreshing to see and hear that the MP’s and cabinet ministers can talking openly, coherently and with depth instead of just talking points and deflecting. And they didn’t get burnt at the stake as a result.

Massaging the story by political communications staff of all stripes is why the population is so annoyed and angry. If our leaders would talk to us like adults maybe we wouldn’t act like children.
 

lenaitch

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I generally agree with recent comments. Some media and others have been playing up different views and opinions presented as evidence of confusion or lack of leadership, but that's the way large organizations work. Advisors and departments provide advice that may vary from each other, but the top of the pile owns the ultimate decision. I would have been more concerned if the testimony was more 'unified'.

It seems the government played a little fast a loose with the definitions in the EA but I think they will weather that. I was a little concerned with the head of CSIS and the PM's NSA testifying that it was okay to ignore the EA; their role is to speak truth to power.

It seems many who testified have seen the lesson that what you say in texts, tweets, etc. is there forever. I wonder if they will learn from it.
 

Navy_Pete

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IIRC one line stood out from testimony for me.

An Ottawa MP declared "her" fear. She felt that the protesters hated "Liberals". This coincided with JT's disdain for those people that had been protesting him and his government since at least the previous federal campaign.

Their concern was that they personally were at risk of a coup.

This was in spite of external opinion.


Edit - Related

Feb. 5: Mr. Lametti is growing impatient with Mr. Sloly. In a text message with Mr. Mendicino, as big rigs, bouncy castles, food tents and other vehicles are parked outside the House of Commons, he texts Mr. Mendicino, “Need Sloly to be quick, quick, quick”.

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In the inquiry, Mr. Lametti said in hindsight he would have softened his comments about Mr. Sloly but added that he and his staff felt unsafe during the protests.


So not professional assessments but personal feelings.

If I had hundreds of people with giant 'F*ck Navy_Pete' flags outside my workplace chanting for me to be overthrown, in the context of recent armed lunatics running into my fence, foiled kidnapping/assassination attempts of people doing similar work, and my neighbour had been stormed with people looking to hang them, I'd probably feel unsafe as well, and not necessarily confident in the reassurances of people not in the same building that there was no threat, or from people that had been dropping the ball for weeks that a settlement was pending (yet again).

For all the people treating it like a party, there was a large contingent of pretty hardcore, very aggressive people acting generally unhinged while they were in town. Anyone who will start yelling at a random cashier in a grocery store that they are a brainwashed sheep is a piece of shit IMHO.
 

ArmyRick

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If I had hundreds of people with giant 'F*ck Navy_Pete' flags outside my workplace chanting for me to be overthrown, in the context of recent armed lunatics running into my fence, foiled kidnapping/assassination attempts of people doing similar work, and my neighbour had been stormed with people looking to hang them, I'd probably feel unsafe as well, and not necessarily confident in the reassurances of people not in the same building that there was no threat, or from people that had been dropping the ball for weeks that a settlement was pending (yet again).

For all the people treating it like a party, there was a large contingent of pretty hardcore, very aggressive people acting generally unhinged while they were in town. Anyone who will start yelling at a random cashier in a grocery store that they are a brainwashed sheep is a piece of shit IMHO.
If we had a Prime Minister with an ounce of integrity, accountability and Transparency, then believe me, this protest wouldn't have happened.

What he did was use a gun to get rid of a fly when a fly swatter would have done. And now the Trudeau Liberals are very poorly justifying their decision. It was overkill.
 

daftandbarmy

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If we had a Prime Minister with an ounce of integrity, accountability and Transparency, then believe me, this protest wouldn't have happened.

Or a police force that could do its job. They clearly failed to put a credible plan together to address the protests, which is a huge miss.

When the police fail, in the minds of the politicians, the Army is next... and that's when the bodies start piling up.
 

Navy_Pete

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If we had a Prime Minister with an ounce of integrity, accountability and Transparency, then believe me, this protest wouldn't have happened.

What he did was use a gun to get rid of a fly when a fly swatter would have done. And now the Trudeau Liberals are very poorly justifying their decision. It was overkill.
Maybe, but regardless, it did get to that point, and I don't think key people and there staff feeling unsafe during the protests was exaggerated, as there were very vocal elements calling for the government to be overthrown, as we had all watched the US capitol get stormed a little over a year before that with a few people getting killed.

I do think if the EA hadn't been enacted and the Federal government stepped in though, it would have gone on for several more weeks at least. I don't agree with the individuals bank accounts getting frozen and some other aspects of it, but the police action here in Ottawa was well done and glad it ended it peacefully. Not sure things wouldn't have escalated otherwise as people were sick and tired so there were counter protests going where the convoy folks were getting stopped by crowds of locals and forced to surrender their flags before they were able to head out somewhere. That was only going to escalate.
 

Halifax Tar

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Maybe, but regardless, it did get to that point, and I don't think key people and there staff feeling unsafe during the protests was exaggerated, as there were very vocal elements calling for the government to be overthrown, as we had all watched the US capitol get stormed a little over a year before that with a few people getting killed.

I do think if the EA hadn't been enacted and the Federal government stepped in though, it would have gone on for several more weeks at least. I don't agree with the individuals bank accounts getting frozen and some other aspects of it, but the police action here in Ottawa was well done and glad it ended it peacefully. Not sure things wouldn't have escalated otherwise as people were sick and tired so there were counter protests going where the convoy folks were getting stopped by crowds of locals and forced to surrender their flags before they were able to head out somewhere. That was only going to escalate.

I can understand that some may have been scared, but I also think it was unfounded and unreasonable and probably exacerbated by the long time Canadian attribute which is to look south and import those emotions; and a media that thrives and exists on fear, drama and emotions.

Anyways, its over and we didn't need the Army. And JT and his government will likely get away with misusing the EA.
 

Navy_Pete

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I can understand that some may have been scared, but I also think it was unfounded and unreasonable and probably exacerbated by the long time Canadian attribute which is to look south and import those emotions; and a media that thrives and exists on fear, drama and emotions.

Anyways, its over and we didn't need the Army. And JT and his government will likely get away with misusing the EA.
Having seen the trucker convoy up close and personal, I would disagree. There was some pretty friendly people, but also a lot of very aggressive, in your face loud people actively accosting people. Not just downtown; as I alluded to some of them took their politics all over the city with them and would yell at random people wearing masks, or get pissed off at workers asking them to put on a mask (as required by provincial health orders with fines on the business for non-compliance).

It was bad enough that a lot of businesses shut down for their worker's safety, but on the plus side random people kept coming to the defence of cashiers, stock takers etc when some asshole started losing their mind. Some of them seemed to actively go out of their way to 'stick it to the libs' or whatever and were just obnoxious and acting like bullies, which worked right up until total strangers started to band together against them.

We get large protests all the time, and usually the May Day, anti-abortion, and some other annual ones have more people come into town for them, but never felt the same kind of tension in the city as with this one, as the rest are pretty self contained, whereas this one protestors were harrassing and threatening random people that had nothing to do with what their issue, and also threatening violence against the government.
 

QV

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My personal take is still that the EA was not required but some testimony will likely give the PM a softer landing and if the current polling is correct it seems he hasn’t really been damaged by this. But the final report may change that. My guess is the the commission will indicate that the threshold was not met despite the fact that the police had a complete breakdown but will add caveats that the current EA as written needs some serious updating. It would make sense since it was written in 1985. I’m not even sure why legislation like that doesn’t have a certain shelf life that requires revisiting. One thing that is a positive, is that the EA checks and balances requiring an inquiry seem to be working as intended.

If you are of the premise that this law requires updating because it was written in 1985, are you also of the same premise that the Charter of Rights needs some serious updating? They are of the same era.

The definitions in the EA are strict on purpose, it is meant to only be enacted in actual national emergencies which parliament has defined, not emergencies that a bureaucrat or a political party can define in the moment.
 
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