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Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

brihard

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Trudeau says the police asked for the emergencies act.

The police said they didn't.

I wonder who is lying.


LILLEY: Trudeau spreads misinformation after cops say they didn't ask for Emergencies Act
I suspect a careful look will find that police didn’t ask for “the emergencies act”, specifically, but rather that certain needs and gaps were identified and articulated. I would guess that police said “here’s what we have / need to be able to do in order to resolve this”, and the government then looked at its options for how that could be achieved.

There was no new law necessary to empower the actual enforcement of clearing people out / arresting them / charging them. The moment the first vehicle went static and started blocking the road, offences were committed. The moment any person acted to obstruct police, they’re arrestable. So that wasn’t the issue. I suspect it came down to the logistics of being able to physically remove potentially hundreds of vehicles. When push literally came to shove, most of them actually turned tail and ran and took their vehicles with them, but it wasn’t anticipated that most of the trucks would actually withdraw under pressure. It was expected that many or most would have to be physically removed, and there were a friggin’ lot of them. It was known that some had been physically disabled, but not how many. At the very last minute, most of them flinched and reversed out of there. But that was definitely on the radar.

I’m not opining on the legitimacy of invoking the EA. I don’t have enough of the facts to speak to that. This is just my thoughts on what some of the considerations may have been.
 

Jarnhamar

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I suspect a careful look will find that police didn’t ask for “the emergencies act”, specifically, but rather that certain needs and gaps were identified and articulated. I would guess that police said “here’s what we have / need to be able to do in order to resolve this”, and the government then looked at its options for how that could be achieved.

A very plausible explanation. If that's the case why lie about it and tell Canadians the police asked for it? That seems like a rather significant detail to gamble with.
 

Good2Golf

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A very plausible explanation. If that's the case why lie about it and tell Canadians the police asked for it? That seems like a rather significant detail to gamble with.
Scorpion’s always gonna sting…
 

Jarnhamar

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Good article


GUNTER: Elites just can’t accept that there was no convoy conspiracy

Federal, provincial, no matter. Authorities just can’t accept that ordinary people were so fed up with top-down control of their every movement for two years during the pandemic that some blockaded our nation’s capital out of sheer frustration. Elites are so sure the convoy was the false front for some giant conspiracy, funded by sinister, international organizations intent on overthrowing Canada’s peace, order and good government, that they are equally intent on punishing Lich in the extreme.
 

daftandbarmy

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And that's what got the "let them eat cake " woman Marie Antoinette marched to the guillotine.

From 2020, but interesting nonetheless:


The Future of the State​

Ten leading global thinkers on government after the pandemic.​



In short, the era of big government is returning, but it will manifest itself in in ways that are quite different from the previous era of large states during the 1960s and 1970s—and much of its new shape will be forged not in the West, but in the East.

 

Eaglelord17

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I suspect a careful look will find that police didn’t ask for “the emergencies act”, specifically, but rather that certain needs and gaps were identified and articulated. I would guess that police said “here’s what we have / need to be able to do in order to resolve this”, and the government then looked at its options for how that could be achieved.

There was no new law necessary to empower the actual enforcement of clearing people out / arresting them / charging them. The moment the first vehicle went static and started blocking the road, offences were committed. The moment any person acted to obstruct police, they’re arrestable. So that wasn’t the issue. I suspect it came down to the logistics of being able to physically remove potentially hundreds of vehicles. When push literally came to shove, most of them actually turned tail and ran and took their vehicles with them, but it wasn’t anticipated that most of the trucks would actually withdraw under pressure. It was expected that many or most would have to be physically removed, and there were a friggin’ lot of them. It was known that some had been physically disabled, but not how many. At the very last minute, most of them flinched and reversed out of there. But that was definitely on the radar.

I’m not opining on the legitimacy of invoking the EA. I don’t have enough of the facts to speak to that. This is just my thoughts on what some of the considerations may have been.
It was a provincial matter which the provinces failed to utilize the resources at their disposal to deal with.

The Feds should have simply said not our problem, go talk to Ford, here is the list of things HE has the power to do to deal with it. For example requesting military assistance being a key one if they didn’t have enough manpower.

Obviously that isn’t what happened, and I would say politically Ford who should have taken the heat for it all, didn’t due to his own inaction. But as our system does have a clear separation of powers built into it, we need to have governments actually stand up and dictate within their own realm instead of trying to be the deciding factor on everything.
 

QV

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She could be in a bit of more trouble.

She stays free. Some common sense applied in this finally.
 

Good2Golf

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It was a provincial matter which the provinces failed to utilize the resources at their disposal to deal with.

The Feds should have simply said not our problem, go talk to Ford, here is the list of things HE has the power to do to deal with it. For example requesting military assistance being a key one if they didn’t have enough manpower.
That’s an interesting take on things. So no municipal responsibility? Just Provincial?

Windsor tidied things up nicely days prior to the EA, with some Provincial support. I will give you that if the Feds had kept their nose out of it instead of fanning the flames, the City of Ottawa could have had as much success as a Windsor did.
 

QV

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Justice is in fact blind and not under political interference (real or imagined)
In many circumstances. Too bad this Crown and the one who went after Adm Norman were probably heavily influenced. So don’t rest too easy.
 

Eaglelord17

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That’s an interesting take on things. So no municipal responsibility? Just Provincial?

Windsor tidied things up nicely days prior to the EA, with some Provincial support. I will give you that if the Feds had kept their nose out of it instead of fanning the flames, the City of Ottawa could have had as much success as a Windsor did.
Municipalities are creatures of the provinces. If the municipality is failing to deal with it effectively it is the responsibility of the Province to handle it.
 

Good2Golf

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Municipalities are creatures of the provinces. If the municipality is failing to deal with it effectively it is the responsibility of the Province to handle it.
…less Ottawa.

I’d be surprised if anyone could say anything at all that would make me believe that Ottawa was entirely a Queen’s Park issue…
 

torg003

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You are correct. Ottawa-Gatineau region should be made a separate Federal Capital Territory (following the example of Australia's ACT).
 

brihard

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FWIW, administration of justice (including law enforcement) remains the constitutional responsibility of the province. Also, municipalities do not exercise operational control over police services. The police services are arms length from the municipal (and provincial) governments. It’s reasonable to look first to senior police leadership in any given jurisdiction for why something happened or didn’t).
 

dimsum

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You are correct. Ottawa-Gatineau region should be made a separate Federal Capital Territory (following the example of Australia's ACT).
Or Washington, DC. Good luck getting ON and PQ to agree to that though.

ON might, but I'd be surprised if PQ does.
 
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