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Diversity in the CAF and veterans

OceanBonfire

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rmc_wannabe

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Does this mean we can stop being branded as racist/sexist/homophobic anglophones?
 

rmc_wannabe

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Or…being a dickhead for a moment about statistics and their usefulness- is the CF having those issues because of the diversity going up…
I think a huge part of it is that society as a whole has shifted. We're far more heterogeneous of a society than we were even 30 years ago.

Unlike the rest of civil society, The CAF retained a lot of policies and attitudes that, while not deliberate, disproportionately favored a nuclear cis-white 1950s style soldier employment model.

We have made great strides (as demonstrated by the statistics reflecting meaningful shift in recruiting and population dynamics). That said, we are late to the party and it's biting us in the ass both in recruiting and retention.

The shift will need to continue to gather steam, but in the mean time, I hope the CAF runs with this messaging and it has a positive affect in the long run.
 
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Booter

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You find our society more homogenous than 50 years ago? Sorry I’m getting mixed up- I agree with your post but that use of homogenous threw me a bit
 

OldSolduer

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You find our society more homogenous than 50 years ago? Sorry I’m getting mixed up- I agree with your post but that use of homogenous threw me a bit
50 years ago most of the community I grew up near was white. We had a sprinkling of Chinese who all seemed to own restaurants. Good ones.

When the Asian population were expelled from Uganda there was one family who settled in Canwood, SK.
Indian by heritage they were tossed out by Idi Amin Dada. They were quite welcome and seemed to fare well in rural Saskatchewan.
 

Booter

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Right- homogenous is when all the system parts look the same. Homogenous societies are those like japan or some Scandinavian countries. They have less diversity. Is my current understanding anyways.

I apologize RMC for the distraction from your content. Which I agree with, didn’t mean to be a sideshow
 

Quirky

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is the CF having those issues because of the diversity going up…

I think society as a whole has the same issues, but because they are CAF related, they make the news on a more frequent basis. The whole "sexual misconduct crisis" perpetrated by the media is vastly over exaggerated. There are pricks everywhere in Canada, including the CAF.
 

OldSolduer

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Or…being a dickhead for a moment about statistics and their usefulness- is the CF having those issues because of the diversity going up…
I can’t speak about the CAF but at my current employment we are super diverse. People from every continent are represented here.

Some of their views are not as…progressive as ours.
 

Blackadder1916

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I was slightly surprised (well, not really surprised, interested would be a better term) in the infographic re Indigenous participation. My initial thought was that service as a Canadian Ranger may have contributed significantly to the numbers. However, on checking what the actual census question was, that notion was in error.

11. Has this person ever served in the Canadian military?
Canadian military service includes service with the Regular Force or Primary Reserve Force as an Officer or Non-Commissioned Member. It does not include service with the Cadets (COATS), the Supplementary Reserve or the Canadian Rangers.
Mark "x" one circle only.
  • Yes, currently serving in the Regular Force or the Primary Reserve Force
  • Yes, but no longer serving in the Regular Force or the Primary Reserve Force
  • No
 

Colin Parkinson

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A lot of these groups immigrate from countries where the armed forces are for losers and they see it as a lower class type of work and a poor financial choice. Most successful people coming here give up a lot to be here and they are working hard to get themselves back on their feet. So any career choice has to involve making good money and/or the abilty to move up the social ladder.
I doubt the people pushing these diversity quotas have any clue as to the motivations and needs of immigrants and it's not until you start looking at 2nd or third generation will you see a group that has another viewpoint then their parents who made the initial move. I have been working for 2 years now to crack the "code" to connect with the local Persian community and have two Farsi speaking officers, yet we still not seeing the success we want. I also note that there are almost zero Persians working in the Civil Service here in Vancouver, despite the large population. Again they see it as a unsuccessful dead end. Their indoctrination is all business orientated.
 

Good2Golf

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Their indoctrination is all business orientated.
As is the Government of Canada’s basis of much of the qualification for immigrants…so it’s almost as if the Government’s own immigration policy (perhaps, or deliberately?) selects people less likely to join the CAF…
 

Colin Parkinson

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As is the Government of Canada’s basis of much of the qualification for immigrants…so it’s almost as if the Government’s own immigration policy (perhaps, or deliberately?) selects people less likely to join the CAF…
I think that line of thought require more cunning than they are capable of. I think it's more that these immigrants are more likely to generate a positive economic boost over the initial investment/risk the government is taking on them.
 

Good2Golf

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I think that line of thought require more cunning than they are capable of. I think it's more that these immigrants are more likely to generate a positive economic boost over the initial investment/risk the government is taking on them.
Yeah, probably. Occam’s Razor probably applies.
 

rmc_wannabe

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I also think that our previous approach of only hiring Canadian citizens didn't help diversify the forces.

By the time someone is a Canadian citizen, they're already on their feet and have established themselves. Who they establish themselves with are usually whoever is willing to hire them upon arrival. They grow with that company and eventually become citizens. By that time, folks aren't willing to leave a sure bet to take the King's shilling.

If we were smart, we would offer avenues for fast tracking if there is a desire for service with the CAF/RCMP. A lot of our allies, even in the FVEY community, offer this path as a recruiting tool.
 

Navy_Pete

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I was slightly surprised (well, not really surprised, interested would be a better term) in the infographic re Indigenous participation. My initial thought was that service as a Canadian Ranger may have contributed significantly to the numbers. However, on checking what the actual census question was, that notion was in error.

That's weird, is it because the rangers are a sub-component of the reserve (similar to Cadets) vice being regular militia?

It's probably an arbitrary distinction, but my impression was always that the Rangers operate a bit more like another element that coordinates with regular/reserve CAF units and do their own distinct thing, with a lot of learning on things like winter warfare, SAR in the Artic, etc. Really big fan of the Rangers in general and were a really interesting bunch of people to work with (briefly). They seem incredibly effective at what they do, and I think their much more relaxed way of doing things works really well for them (vice a more hierarchical and formal military type CoC).

Pretty interesting though that with the Rangers excluded the Indigenous members is disproportionate to the population, and other groups may be as well, so maybe we're doing a better job of being inclusive than we think (maybe not good, but just less bad than society in general?).

Progress though?
 

dimsum

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A lot of these groups immigrate from countries where the armed forces are for losers and they see it as a lower class type of work and a poor financial choice. Most successful people coming here give up a lot to be here and they are working hard to get themselves back on their feet. So any career choice has to involve making good money and/or the abilty to move up the social ladder.
I doubt the people pushing these diversity quotas have any clue as to the motivations and needs of immigrants and it's not until you start looking at 2nd or third generation will you see a group that has another viewpoint then their parents who made the initial move. I have been working for 2 years now to crack the "code" to connect with the local Persian community and have two Farsi speaking officers, yet we still not seeing the success we want. I also note that there are almost zero Persians working in the Civil Service here in Vancouver, despite the large population. Again they see it as a unsuccessful dead end. Their indoctrination is all business orientated.
Completely anecdotal, but I know at least 5 CAF members of Persian background. They are all 2nd-generation though (their parents were immigrants).
 

rmc_wannabe

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Completely anecdotal, but I know at least 5 CAF members of Persian background. They are all 2nd-generation though (their parents were immigrants).
I imagine their parents lived under the Shah, and/or had family members lost in the Iran/Iraq War.

My grandparents, Dio riposi anime, would have been apalled to see me join the military. They lived under Mussolini and had family members die on the Russian front after being drafted. They're view of military organizations was rightly that of distrust.

Might be something we work on for outreach with recruiting.
 
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