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Defending Canadian Arctic Sovereignty

TacticalTea

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Being judgemental about their situation says more about you than it does about them. You would be behaving exactly the same as them given the situation. It's survival mode and I don't think many people understand that.

Crime is cultural as is parenthood and the expectations thereof. When you destroy a culture WTF do you think replaces it? Exactly what you saw.
Sure call me a racist while you're at it. That's at the heart of Canada's problems. Electoralism and fear to offend.

But first, point out where and how exactly I was judgmental.

Yes, it is survival. Yes, I would probably act the same. None of that has anything to do with my previous comment. I'm talking about how the government and wider society interact with them.
 

lenaitch

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The GGH is the economic engine of the province. Two-thirds of Ontario’s gross domestic product (GDP) is generated here.

I've always had a bit of a problem with this statement. To me, there is a difference between where income is reported and where it is generated. The fact that Toronto is the headquarters of some of the largest mining companies in the country does not mean that any of the wealth is mined there. Same for the banks.
 

TacticalTea

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Great idea but how is that reconciled with their right/desire to live on their traditional land on in their home community that has little to no inherent economy? I'm not familiar with the arctic but the comment about the similarity in the territories and north portions of provinces is apt. When you live in a community of a few hundred perched in the middle of the bush or the shore of the arctic sea, where do the jobs come from beyond a possible few in tourism or government, or possible a nearby mine, which seems rather serendipitous.
Climate change and the GoC's pivot to the arctic present great opportunities for job creation.

Recruiting, training, and sustainably employing locals would be difficult, sure, but not impossible. We do it with rangers and other federal services.

"Traditional" living is going the way of the dodo. No one up there lives traditionally. Southerners need to cut that delusion. Am I saying that all their traditions should be abandoned? Of course not, that would be akin to bringing back residential schools. But regular employment would not interfere with traditionalism they still engage in.
 

Underway

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Sure call me a racist while you're at it. That's at the heart of Canada's problems. Electoralism and fear to offend.

But first, point out where and how exactly I was judgmental.
If I was afraid to offend I wouldn't have written what I did. Interpretation of racism is from you not from me, I never thought that for a second. You didn't bother to think about why the situation is the way it is and went straight punishment instead of fixing the root cause.

Your judgmentalism is from the statement about why someone has kids and your interpretation that somehow it's to make money off the government. I'm sure they have very easy access to birth control and abortion services. Because that's the priority when you suffer from easily curable illnesses, and nutritional deficiencies, and live on near subsistence levels of poverty.
 

Weinie

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Climate change and the GoC's pivot to the arctic present great opportunities for job creation.

Recruiting, training, and sustainably employing locals would be difficult, sure, but not impossible. We do it with rangers and other federal services.

"Traditional" living is going the way of the dodo. No one up there lives traditionally. Southerners need to cut that delusion. Am I saying that all their traditions should be abandoned? Of course not, that would be akin to bringing back residential schools. But regular employment would not interfere with traditionalism they still engage in.
Traditional living evaporated with the adoption of rifles, outboard motors, chainsaws, snowmobiles, etc etc. Those smart adopted it and flourished.

The fact that we are having this discussion both ignores and highlights history. Cultures have been obliterated throughout the history of homo sapiens. Canadian Natives are no different.
 

TacticalTea

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If I was afraid to offend I wouldn't have written what I did. Interpretation of racism is from you not from me, I never thought that for a second. You didn't bother to think about why the situation is the way it is and went straight punishment instead of fixing the root cause.

Your judgmentalism is from the statement about why someone has kids and your interpretation that somehow it's to make money off the government. I'm sure they have very easy access to birth control and abortion services. Because that's the priority when you suffer from easily curable illnesses, and nutritional deficiencies, and live on near subsistence levels of poverty.
Right so you just assumed.

Assumed that I just stared at these people then walked away in disgust. Couldn't be further from the truth.

No. From community to community, I've spoken with and engaged with the locals. My assessment is based on what they have told me. I have not been inside their homes and lived their lives and thus would have no idea about any of that, had they not volunteered this information and their own observations to me.
 

suffolkowner

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Most of the native population in the high arctic was moved there by the federal government to establish and maintain a sovereignty claim. I dont see why opportunities to reinforce and enforce that claim today should not be taken and provided for
 

Weinie

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Most of the native population in the high arctic was moved there by the federal government to establish and maintain a sovereignty claim. I dont see why opportunities to reinforce and enforce that claim today should not be taken and provided for
Substantiate that claim.
 

Kirkhill

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Most of the native population in the high arctic was moved there by the federal government to establish and maintain a sovereignty claim. I dont see why opportunities to reinforce and enforce that claim today should not be taken and provided for


In 1953 and 1955, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, acting as representatives of the Department of Resources and Development, moved approximately 92 Inuit from Inukjuak, formerly called Port Harrison, in Northern Quebec, and Mittimatalik (Pond Inlet), in what is now Nunavut, to settle two locations on the High Arctic islands. It has been argued that the Government of Canada ordered the relocations to establish Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic, and proposed to Inuit the move, promising improved living conditions. The Inuit were assured plentiful wildlife, but soon discovered that they had been misled, and endured hardships.

In 1953, one RCMP officer, an interpreter and an Inuit Special Constable providing translation, began recruiting Inuit families for resettlement in the High Arctic, about 2,000 km away.

In July 1953, seven Inukjuak families boarded the ship CD Howe, which would take them to their new homes. According to personal accounts, relatives and community members went out in their boats to watch the ship depart. Some of those on board cried at being separated from their families.

The CD Howe sailed northward and arrived in Mittimatalik (Pond Inlet), on the northern coast of Baffin Island, in August, where three local families boarded. The Mittimatalik families were meant to assist the Inuit from Inukjuak in adapting to High Arctic living conditions.

In 1955, four more families from Inukjuak and two from Mittimatalik were relocated.

The Inuit community, even now, is a small community. The event had a major impact on the community. The Government lied to the Inuit and abused their trust. People died. Not a great period and nothing to be proud of.

But....

As always perspective is required.
 

TacticalTea

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Substantiate that claim.
I know the folks in Grise Fjord were moved there by an expedition.

Can't speak for the others. This article on wikipedia has some pointers: High Arctic relocation - Wikipedia

Doesn't seem to support the assertion of ''most communities" as, in addition to the one previously mentioned, it only mentions Resolute.

(Apologies to @Kirkhill , hadn't updated page/seen his comment before posting)
 

lenaitch

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Climate change and the GoC's pivot to the arctic present great opportunities for job creation.

Recruiting, training, and sustainably employing locals would be difficult, sure, but not impossible. We do it with rangers and other federal services.

"Traditional" living is going the way of the dodo. No one up there lives traditionally. Southerners need to cut that delusion. Am I saying that all their traditions should be abandoned? Of course not, that would be akin to bringing back residential schools. But regular employment would not interfere with traditionalism they still engage in.
Opportunities perhaps, but I'm not sure how significant they would be. I suppose I don't see a functioning economy solely based on being dependent on the government ('government' in the broadest sense). It's like the former resource-based 'company towns'. Once the need is no longer needed there, the economic basis for the community collapses. It would be not different with the government as the employer.

How many year-round, full time, benefits and pension earning jobs in government/climate change/CAF can there be in Baker Lake (pop ~2000) or Pond Inlet (1300)?

I agree with another post that once firearms and MSVs were introduced, the 'traditional way of life' changed drastically, but many still hunt and fish for sustenance, and you can't deny that there is a cultural attachment to the land. In many cases, they feel they are stewards of the land. In terms of governance, Nunavut is Inuit land. I'm not sure they would agree that their way of life, however 'traditional' or not, is merely a southern delusion.

Edit to Add: Actually when you look at the raw employment statistics, they look better that I would have thought. It would take a deeper drill into the numbers to analyze things like full time vs. part time, seasonality, income levels, CPI, etc. It's a very expensive place to live.

 
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Brad Sallows

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Whether or not to retain/abandon traditions, or to adapt lifestyle, is up to the inhabitants.

Canada has to move away from the idea that anyone is owed a living where they wish to live.
 

daftandbarmy

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Whether or not to retain/abandon traditions, or to adapt lifestyle, is up to the inhabitants.

Canada has to move away from the idea that anyone is owed a living where they wish to live.

Well, you've just trashed a core pillar of our Confederation.

And how do you know the cod won't magically return to our Eastern shores, along with a huge demand for wooden boats and undersea coal mining? ;)
 

suffolkowner

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Substantiate that claim.










The Inuit community, even now, is a small community. The event had a major impact on the community. The Government lied to the Inuit and abused their trust. People died. Not a great period and nothing to be proud of.

But....

As always perspective is required.
Well I was certainly under the impression that it was a much larger operation than that
 

daftandbarmy

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"(MND) she later corrected that, saying the $4.9 billion was not new and was instead funding previously allocated under the $8-billion spending boost promised in the last federal budget."

...

So 3 billion dollars to fix everything else? Great.

shocked marge simpson GIF
 

Skysix

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That was my observation as well from touring the communities. The best thing we can do up there is get them jobs. That will secure their future as individuals, and that of their communities.

And stop treating them like the government's foster children. Crime is crime. Parenthood is not a get-rich-quick scheme.
Maybe over time shift a bunch of the federal jobs that CAN be done remotely (as recent events have shown) to the arctic communities and ensure reliable net access there. Not aall of those jobs will require years of southern post secondary education.
 
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