CT from NWO to INT :/

[Flatfish]

Going into yr 2 of RMC/CMR already talked to carreer O about trying to switch into INT?
Am i dreaming some people say theres no chance they will let me out of NWO which as we alll know is deep red. CarrerO says its possible but that doesnt mean much. Does anyone have any advice?
I posted a similar question once on the forum before aswell

 

[Navy_Pete]

Obligatory joke about NWOs being inherently underqualified for Int O.

I think Int O is usually a VOT after you hit OFP in another trade, so you may want to look at other options for trades as well.

Keeping someone in a trade that requires expensive and extensive training that doesn't want to do it is dumb, but there is a reason you never go Full RCN.

 

[Flatfish]

Well i can put in for a CT once im done with basic which will be july 15th godwilling. So that gives me 3yrs to get it done. See i dont really want to do another five yrs 3 of which in esquaimult and then hard sails after that for who knows in adition to 4 at RMC lol. Other platoon mates say i may be stuck as nwo and thay trying to get to trade like int out of reds is near impossible

i kinda want to actually be able to have a more functional relationship with my gf And come home at the end of the work day. Not do years more of training and never be around. So i wouldnt mind doing something else like LOG or anything where i have a bit more of an ability to come home at the end of the day. Navy int would be amazing cause it meets all the boxes and not too bad sailing and trg wise

 

[Winds]

The person you need to talk to is the BPSO.

The difficulty in the transfer is not just that NWO is "red" but that VOTs for untrained personnel are typically limited to a restricted list of other "red" trades, which precludes one from transfering to INT... unless policy has changed in the last few years.

If you are concerned that NWOs are away from home too much for sailing, then why do you want to sail as Navy INT?... why not Air Force or army INT? If you are able to apply for an OT to INT, odds are more likely that you will end up in the Army or Air Force than the Navy. And regardless of which element you are, if part of your aspiration is to be posted to the Coast, well there are plenty of INT Os whose first posting is to a HQ in Ottawa.

 

[Pelorus]

The person you need to talk to is the BPSO.

The difficulty in the transfer is not just that NWO is "red" but that VOTs for untrained personnel are typically limited to a restricted list of other "red" trades, which precludes one from transfering to INT... unless policy has changed in the last few years.

If you are concerned that NWOs are away from home too much for sailing, then why do you want to sail as Navy INT?... why not Air Force or army INT? If you are able to apply for an OT to INT, odds are more likely that you will end up in the Army or Air Force than the Navy. And regardless of which element you are, if part of your aspiration is to be posted to the Coast, well there are plenty of INT Os whose first posting is to a HQ in Ottawa.

Navy Int typically doesn't sail much. Usually one deployment at most. Rare for them to get their gunmetal SSI in my experience if they weren't a different RCN trade previously.

 

[stoker dave]

i kinda want to actually be able to have a more functional relationship with my gf And come home at the end of the work day.

I am assuming you are young. You have your whole life ahead of you. There is a good chance you will live to be 100 years old and your working career will be 50 years.

When you are young, you should seize the opportunity to travel, learn and explore.

I am now semi-retired and looking back some of the best years of my life were spent on long Navy deployments. The learning opportunities (personal and professional) are boundless.

Do you really want a job where you sit in a beige-coloured box for 8 hours a day? You can do that for then latter 30 years of your working career. You are young: be bold and go forth.

 

[FSTO]

^^
Yea, turning into a 9-5 Office Drone at 20 years of age is not an appealing thought. This is coming from a 60+ yo who had a god damn hoot of a time as a Junior MARS officer.

 

[stoker dave]

I will further add that the most interesting, challenging and rewarding (in every sense) work that I have done (I am an engineer) has been field work. It is one thing to sit behind a desk and write detailed technical reports that no one will ever read. It is a completely different role to be actively involved in field operations: construction, environmental remediation, etc. Field projects have taken me to locations across North America (my most recent project was at a rare earth element mine located adjacent to the Mojave Desert). In field operations, I have the responsibility and authority to direct teams of workers and some pretty impressive heavy equipment all towards achieving some results (building something, cleaning up contamination, etc.). This type of work requires a broad spectrum of skills beyond the technical knowledge.

Field work is hard: it can be a lot of outdoor work, in harsh weather, long hours, dealing with construction workers, away from home for extended durations, etc. But I would much rather spend my time doing that than sitting inside on a 9-5 job staring at a screen.

I am not sure why at a young age you want to settle down. I strongly urge you to take the risks, travel the world, learn about operations (ships, construction, military, whatever) and you will benefit from that experience for your entire life.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I will further add that the most interesting, challenging and rewarding (in every sense) work that I have done (I am an engineer) has been field work. It is one thing to sit behind a desk and write detailed technical reports that no one will ever read. It is a completely different role to be actively involved in field operations: construction, environmental remediation, etc. Field projects have taken me to locations across North America (my most recent project was at a rare earth element mine located adjacent to the Mojave Desert). In field operations, I have the responsibility and authority to direct teams of workers and some pretty impressive heavy equipment all towards achieving some results (building something, cleaning up contamination, etc.). This type of work requires a broad spectrum of skills beyond the technical knowledge.

Field work is hard: it can be a lot of outdoor work, in harsh weather, long hours, dealing with construction workers, away from home for extended durations, etc. But I would much rather spend my time doing that than sitting inside on a 9-5 job staring at a screen.

I am not sure why at a young age you want to settle down. I strongly urge you to take the risks, travel the world, learn about operations (ships, construction, military, whatever) and you will benefit from that experience for your entire life.

Fully agree with this, wanting to keep doing field work and more hands on stuff is a real motivator to not want to get promoted further until I can't physically do it anymore. Paperwork is a necessary evil, but always continue to look for opportunities to do actual hands on work.

Also, having actually done the field work is a big advantage when looking at things; lots of occasions where things look good on paper, but miss real world issues that you don't find in standards, and doing proper performance based design really requires a strong grasp of both the 'why' behind prescriptive standards and things that will happen in real life. And even meeting prescriptive codes it's easy to check the boxes but have it still not actually work.

And aside from the work aspect, think I'm a better person for having traveled and seen conditions in countries other than Canada. Hearing about third world countries and actually seeing it in person is totally different, and also helped realize that parents, regardless of language, culture etc just want to have their kids be okay and better opportunities then they have, and suddenly understood why they would take the risks they do with the migrant boats and human smugglers.

 

[dimsum]

OP: I'll suggest that if you haven't really sat down and talked to your girlfriend about this situation, you really should.

What is her take on it? Will she be supportive of you (regardless of trade) being away? INT folks deploy as well to places that NWOs don't. All trades will have last minute, late notice times when you just have to pick up and leave.

Also, while this will be a bit delicate, I'll just come out and say it. If your girlfriend ends up not being supportive of you being away now, that is a big relationship red flag that won't change regardless of trade. Military life is inherently volatile that way and if she's not cool with you being in training when she's in one spot, what is her take on being posted every few years (which NWOs generally don't, but LOG and INT definitely do)?

 

[Journeyman]

As a former Int O, I got divorced because my wife (who was ex-Mil) "didn't sign up to be a single mother." I was gone a lot!! Just know that training, exercises, deployments all add up.

 

[btrudy]

^^
Yea, turning into a 9-5 Office Drone at 20 years of age is not an appealing thought. This is coming from a 60+ yo who had a god damn hoot of a time as a Junior MARS officer.

I will further add that the most interesting, challenging and rewarding (in every sense) work that I have done (I am an engineer) has been field work. It is one thing to sit behind a desk and write detailed technical reports that no one will ever read. It is a completely different role to be actively involved in field operations: construction, environmental remediation, etc. Field projects have taken me to locations across North America (my most recent project was at a rare earth element mine located adjacent to the Mojave Desert). In field operations, I have the responsibility and authority to direct teams of workers and some pretty impressive heavy equipment all towards achieving some results (building something, cleaning up contamination, etc.). This type of work requires a broad spectrum of skills beyond the technical knowledge.

Field work is hard: it can be a lot of outdoor work, in harsh weather, long hours, dealing with construction workers, away from home for extended durations, etc. But I would much rather spend my time doing that than sitting inside on a 9-5 job staring at a screen.

I am not sure why at a young age you want to settle down. I strongly urge you to take the risks, travel the world, learn about operations (ships, construction, military, whatever) and you will benefit from that experience for your entire life.

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but when someone's telling you what they want, you should bloody well listen to them, even if it's not the same thing that you would have wanted at their age. People are perfectly capable of determining for themselves which things they want in their lives, and for some people that's "not being away from home so damned much", or "having a reasonable work / life balance".

 

[FSTO]

They can tell me to go to hell for expressing my opinion. That is their prerogative. What makes it okay for you to speak for them? Did they ask you to advocate for them?

So yes, you are a rude person.

 

[btrudy]

Fine, whatever dude. Honestly, your attitude is IMHO emblematic of exactly what is killing our retention. God forbid that when people tell you what they want, leaders actually try to listen to them. Maybe even change things to accommodate. Surely our principles of leadership don't suggest that we should get to know our people and promote their welfare.

Nope, double down instead and lash out instead. That's a good way to run things.

 

[FSTO]

You’re are quite the self righteous one aren’t you. You’ve got all the empathy phrases down pat. Bully for you!

The person in question wanted options, I gave them an option to explore wider experiences. If they are adamant in taking another path I’ll steer them towards the people who can make that happen and wish them well. At least I gave them choices and another POV.

 

[Flatfish]

Thanka to both of you for your responses its always good to havw differing viewpoints and i agree its good for young people to go out and do adventerous and challenging work thats good for everyone. I wanted to go but im also very serious about my relationship with my girlfriend. I believe she is the one for me and i want to position myself so that we can get as much quality time together as possible while providing a decent living. I think family and relationship are extremely important and i also realize i am in the caf. Gtg now but thats the general gist of what im trying to aim for.

 

[dimsum]

Fine, whatever dude. Honestly, your attitude is IMHO emblematic of exactly what is killing our retention. God forbid that when people tell you what they want, leaders actually try to listen to them. Maybe even change things to accommodate. Surely our principles of leadership don't suggest that we should get to know our people and promote their welfare.

Nope, double down instead and lash out instead. That's a good way to run things.

Let's take another example. Someone in Week 2 of BMQ wants to leave the CAF because they hate Basic Training. They did not say they hate the CAF.

You, as their staff, know that it's not like that in X trade afterwards. Would you then agree that they should VR, or maybe suggest that it's not like that after Basic and that situations can wildly change?

To OP: I still suggest that regardless of your trade choice and whether you switch, if you haven't done so, talk to your girlfriend about the moving/deployment/time away and see what her thoughts are about it all.

 

[NavyShooter]

Once upon a time, I joined a ship (HMCS Charlottetown) and was posted to that ship for 56 months.

Within that 56 month period, I was away from home for 39 months. I did 3 sets of workups, and 2 deployments, and when the ship was alongside doing a refit in the midst of that, I was on another task away from home which built up some of that 39 months.

Life in the Navy will see you pushed hard. You will be away from home. You will be thinking about work even when you are at home. You will not be able to leave your work at your desk, particularly as a leader.

If that's not what you want, then find what you do want.

Bear in mind also that this type of job related stress is not the sole domain of the RCN.

Army, Navy and Air-force share this (though some of the zoomies end up with a bit less stress and better hotels when deployed.)

It's also found in the civilian world - police, fire fighters, EMT's, etc.

The thing is, with that stress is also the reward of doing something IMPORTANT, something VITAL.

It may not seem that scrubbing a deck, or puking over the guardrail is vital, but the presence of our ships is a message to both our allies, and our detractors. You can be a part of that.

 

[Weinie]

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but when someone's telling you what they want, you should bloody well listen to them, even if it's not the same thing that you would have wanted at their age. People are perfectly capable of determining for themselves which things they want in their lives, and for some people that's "not being away from home so damned much", or "having a reasonable work / life balance".

Prototypical passive aggressive, where you conceal your intent behind mendacity. You must be a ball at parties.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Fine, whatever dude. Honestly, your attitude is IMHO emblematic of exactly what is killing our retention. God forbid that when people tell you what they want, leaders actually try to listen to them. Maybe even change things to accommodate. Surely our principles of leadership don't suggest that we should get to know our people and promote their welfare.

Nope, double down instead and lash out instead. That's a good way to run things.

And telling people what they want to hear is the way to go?

Some jobs require a lot of travel; and I have peers in industry that work much longer hours and travel more than I do currently. Not a big deal, but if being at home is the top thing in your life, there are a lot of careers that just won't accomodate you, and the CAF is also probably not for you. Being honest with people is probably one of the biggest leadership principle that we're shit at, which includes passing up the chain that we really need to pump the brakes on the ops tempo if they want us to actually rebuild.

You can promote people's welfare, but the job still needs done, and you can only accomodate so much. We're already deliberately ignoring legitimate safety and operational requirements for QoL; there is such a thing as a balance.

And realistically, how many people meet the one that is for them in their late teens? Making major life decisions based on a partner at that age never seems to turn out well.