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Change of Command drill question / passing of the Colours and Swagger (Pace) stick

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Weinie

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It’s rarely one thing that push people out but an amalgamation of dis-satisfiers. That’s one of those dis-satisfiers, at least in the RCAF.
Sigh.................OK, But an amalgamation of dis-satisfiers pushes us to believe that the candidate was not a strong candidate for the CAF in the first place.
 

SupersonicMax

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Sigh.................OK, But an amalgamation of dis-satisfiers pushes us to believe that the candidate was not a strong candidate for the CAF in the first place.
Or perhaps the way we are doing things is archaic and can be modernized? Is expecting to be employed effectively and efficiently really an unrealistic demand?
 

Weinie

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Or perhaps the way we are doing things is archaic and can be modernized? Is expecting to be employed effectively and efficiently really an unrealistic demand?
Not at all. But catering to individual demands is, and will lead to anarchy.
 

Colin Parkinson

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As I recall the navies traditionally had all hands (if possible) assemble midships, where the Captain would read out his orders appointing him to command the ship. Marchpasts would be very much an army thing which air forces inherited due to their army roots.
 

Furniture

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Sigh.................OK, But an amalgamation of dis-satisfiers pushes us to believe that the candidate was not a strong candidate for the CAF in the first place.
Alternatively, it leads us to believe the CAF is not a desirable employer, and needs to change to attract and retain personnel.

I can't get uniforms. I have been RCN since March, and still don't have DEUs. I was supposed to be MC for a change of appointment today, but didn't have uniforms to participate in the ceremony. That is a dissatisfier.

I suppose that makes me a bad CAF member, and I should release to the PS....

EDIT: I also had to sit out a grad ceremony for a course I was the instructor for, because again, I didn't have DEU. It's entirely my fault for not predicting the CAF's inability to provide uniforms to it's members, and therefore my fault that I failed to have the correct uniforms at the right time. I hope Weinie will forgive me for despairing at the state of uniforms and ceremony in the CAF, and not banish me to the PS.
 

Eye In The Sky

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So when do we start parades for outgoing RSMs, Coxns, CSMs, and other NCM jobs?

Change of Appointments has been happening for a long time. My Sqn just did one last week immediately before the CoC.

It's an archaic tradition tied directly to class...

Is it class nowadays or…Command/responsibility based?

If we are doing parades to recognize people, why not have a massive parade for all pers posted in and out? Let every S3/Pte/Avr-Adm/Gen have a speech and a some flowers?

This is where we are starting to go wrong in the CAF. Rank has its responsibilities and also has its privileges. We in uniform are NOT all equal despite the current climate…
 

rmc_wannabe

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I am starting to see this thread becoming pedantic and an "US vs. THEM" between the Army and the RCN/RCAF.

Different traditions and customs (or habits in the case of the RCAF) exist. We agree on that. Change of Command ceremonies are important. We all should agree with that. The 4 hour jug fuck that takes 7 weeks to plan? Definitely bad, needs to stop. Agreed.

As for parades being useless, or that we should only be holding them for Remembrance Day or other commemoration.... I don't think we will find consensus here. The RCAF is too busy, the RCN is too short staffed, and the CA has nothing better to do than bash the square. These are the prevailing arguments I'm seeing.

I've made my position known and explained it at length. I have provided rebuttals as I saw fit. Anything else now is just hacking at bone.

@Eye In The Sky did you end up getting your answer in all this?
 

Weinie

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Alternatively, it leads us to believe the CAF is not a desirable employer, and needs to change to attract and retain personnel.

I can't get uniforms. I have been RCN since March, and still don't have DEUs. I was supposed to be MC for a change of appointment today, but didn't have uniforms to participate in the ceremony. That is a dissatisfier.

I suppose that makes me a bad CAF member, and I should release to the PS....
No, it just reflects the reality of current circumstances.....I will refrain from commenting on your QM.

If your attitude is that bad in 4 months since enrolled, please release to PS. Please.
 

PuckChaser

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Alternatively, it leads us to believe the CAF is not a desirable employer, and needs to change to attract and retain personnel.

I can't get uniforms. I have been RCN since March, and still don't have DEUs. I was supposed to be MC for a change of appointment today, but didn't have uniforms to participate in the ceremony. That is a dissatisfier.

I suppose that makes me a bad CAF member, and I should release to the PS....

EDIT: I also had to sit out a grad ceremony for a course I was the instructor for, because again, I didn't have DEU. It's entirely my fault for not predicting the CAF's inability to provide uniforms to it's members, and therefore my fault that I failed to have the correct uniforms at the right time. I hope Weinie will forgive me for despairing at the state of uniforms and ceremony in the CAF, and not banish me to the PS.
Oh look, false equivalencies.

I'd argue lacking proper military uniforms and an atrocious supply/logistic system is more of a dissatisfier than doing a day or 2 of parade practice for a 1 hour parade every 2 years. But if you honestly think people are leaving the CAF because they have to do drill on occasion, I'd love to see even a shred of proof other than Reddit/Army.ca whining and complaining.

I sat and watched the full student body of CMR do a full dress rehearsal for their graduation parade in 30+ degree weather a few weeks ago. Not a single one looked disgruntled the next day at the actual parade, where they looked incredible and their drill was on point. Maybe they should have just sat in chairs to honour 4 years of hard work, or done it on Zoom.
 

Furniture

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No, it just reflects the reality of current circumstances.....I will refrain from commenting on your QM.

If your attitude is that bad in 4 months since enrolled, please release to PS. Please.
21 Years, and four months. I'll release when I no longer contribute to my occupation and the CAF...
Oh look, false equivalencies.

I'd argue lacking proper military uniforms and an atrocious supply/logistic system is more of a dissatisfier than doing a day or 2 of parade practice for a 1 hour parade every 2 years. But if you honestly think people are leaving the CAF because they have to do drill on occasion, I'd love to see even a shred of proof other than Reddit/Army.ca whining and complaining.

I sat and watched the full student body of CMR do a full dress rehearsal for their graduation parade in 30+ degree weather a few weeks ago. Not a single one looked disgruntled the next day at the actual parade, where they looked incredible and their drill was on point. Maybe they should have just sat in chairs to honour 4 years of hard work, or done it on Zoom.
What false equivalencies?

I said we should do smaller, more focused ceremonies. Your long winded example actually highlights what I was arguing for, rather than refuting it.

Those CMR Grads all have a vested interest in that parade, it's for them. Would they be so happy to put on a parade for the Graduating class of CFSMET JMF 2201 in 30+ degree weather?
 

Eye In The Sky

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For those that say it’s “just two hours,” typically, a CoC would have the unit conduct normal flying on Monday, a half day on Tuesday followed by towing all aircraft out of the hangar (including removing specialized maintenance equipment that was being used to troubleshoot/fix the aircraft and cleaning the hangar until Wednesday PM, at which point the unit would practice for the CoC. Thursday AM would be setup finalization for the “2-hour” parade, which would occur on Thursday PM. Friday would be left for putting everything back to the way it was on Tuesday AM with Monday off as a short “for the hard work with the parade.” So, essentially a week away from generating aircraft and flying lines. Not a great use of ressources.

Okay, that is way more involved than what happens at a place like ZX. I can see why they put a crease in your wedge.
 

Eye In The Sky

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@Eye In The Sky did you end up getting your answer in all this?

I think I did, about reply #6 on Page 1. I love this forum and the way things swirl !

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