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Change of Command drill question / passing of the Colours and Swagger (Pace) stick

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Eye In The Sky

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Doing some prep work for a CofC. I took a look thru 265 to find the drill movements for the "passing of the Colours/Swagger stick" (we are doing a CofA and CofC at the same ceremony).

Couldn't find anything in 201. Not in Ch 8, not in Ch 12. Is this something done that isn't captured in the Pub?
 
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Eye In The Sky

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Likely; but our Sqns always use our Colours. Colour Officer presents Colours to Outgoing CO. Outgoing CO presents to Reviewing Officer (usually WComd). Reviewing Officer presents Colours to Incoming CO. Incoming CO presents back to Colour Officer. 74F5F14A-CA38-4397-ADBD-F9C46115EE4A.jpeg
 

SupersonicMax

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Doing some prep work for a CofC. I took a look thru 265 to find the drill movements for the "passing of the Colours/Swagger stick" (we are doing a CofA and CofC at the same ceremony).

Couldn't find anything in 201. Not in Ch 8, not in Ch 12. Is this something done that isn't captured in the Pub?
There shouldn’t be any parade. It should be a sit-down ceremony per the RCAF reconstitution directive.
 

Halifax Tar

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There shouldn’t be any parade. It should be a sit-down ceremony per the RCAF reconstitution directive.

The whole CAF should adopt that. Nothing I hate more than a change of command ceremony.

Maybe that it's become SOP or expected for messes to buy the departing command pers a present I hate more... Not sure yet.
 

Kilted

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The whole CAF should adopt that. Nothing I hate more than a change of command ceremony.

Maybe that it's become SOP or expected for messes to buy the departing command pers a present I hate more... Not sure yet.
It's basically an SOP.
 

OldSolduer

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The whole CAF should adopt that. Nothing I hate more than a change of command ceremony.

Maybe that it's become SOP or expected for messes to buy the departing command pers a present I hate more... Not sure yet.
Beg to differ here.

In the Army it marks the ending of service to the Regiment by the outgoing CO. It also marks the beginning of the end of Regimental service by the incoming CO. There's only three slots for a CO of a battalion in the Regiment I belong to (retired but once a Patricia..) and its a big deal.

If y'all want to sit down for a Change of Command have at it but I think the Army needs to hold on to some traditions.

And yes the whole gift giving thing needs to be reviewed.
 

Furniture

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Beg to differ here.

In the Army it marks the ending of service to the Regiment by the outgoing CO. It also marks the beginning of the end of Regimental service by the incoming CO. There's only three slots for a CO of a battalion in the Regiment I belong to (retired but once a Patricia..) and its a big deal.

If y'all want to sit down for a Change of Command have at it but I think the Army needs to hold on to some traditions.

And yes the whole gift giving thing needs to be reviewed.
The parade/ceremony is worthwhile to keep, but move the speeches to the Officers Mess after the troops have been dismissed.

I have never been at a change of command where the speeches were primarily directed at the people standing on parade, they were always directed at the people seated uncomfortably in the stands. Why not change that so the people the speech is directed at are comfortable with a drink in their hand, while the troops are at home/in the mess with a drink in their hand?
 

SupersonicMax

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Beg to differ here.

In the Army it marks the ending of service to the Regiment by the outgoing CO. It also marks the beginning of the end of Regimental service by the incoming CO. There's only three slots for a CO of a battalion in the Regiment I belong to (retired but once a Patricia..) and its a big deal.

If y'all want to sit down for a Change of Command have at it but I think the Army needs to hold on to some traditions.

And yes the whole gift giving thing needs to be reviewed.
You can still mark those transitions without a parade. How much time is wasted preparing for a parade that could be used at better, more meaningful tasks?

Is that directive officially out? I would love to print out that page and show some people.
Yes. DM me your DWAN email and I’ll send it later today.
 

Eye In The Sky

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There shouldn’t be any parade. It should be a sit-down ceremony per the RCAF reconstitution directive.

There isn’t; I never said anything about a parade. It’s a ceremony at the Mess which is why I said “ceremony” in my original post. The passing of the Swagger Stick and Colours are part of the ceremony as is the signing of certificates. I did some digging; there is no written policy on the process. I’ve seen it done with and without a pace forward so was wondering what the official stuff was. It doesn’t exist so it can be either or.
 
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Eye In The Sky

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The whole CAF should adopt that. Nothing I hate more than a change of command ceremony.

Maybe that it's become SOP or expected for messes to buy the departing command pers a present I hate more... Not sure yet.

Parades are out for now; ceremonies are the new norm even for WComd. Not even Colour Parties will attend the Wing CofC Ceremony, just Comd Teams and assorted other VIP types.

Personally, I have done enough CofC parades in almost 33 years now. I sat in the 2nd class seating at a Wing CofC in 2019 and it was worse than being on parade. Hot, zero breeze…

I can accept the new tradition changing to a CofC ceremony in the Mess (we have a fairly decent one). No1s for participating mbrs, 3B for spectators. 2 hours max for the whole affair and the bar is open after. That is a nice way to mark the event.

I realize in my community we tend to know our COs very well; I’ve done a few deployments with our Outgoing, he’s been the Skipper more than once.

Doing it at the mess also draws less temporary resources from other Wing units. WTISS isn’t sourced to provide/setup/run/tear down a PA system as 1 example.
 

GK .Dundas

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The way it should be , afterall you wouldn't want the serfs contaminating the ceremony with their presence.
 

Halifax Tar

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Beg to differ here.

In the Army it marks the ending of service to the Regiment by the outgoing CO. It also marks the beginning of the end of Regimental service by the incoming CO. There's only three slots for a CO of a battalion in the Regiment I belong to (retired but once a Patricia..) and its a big deal.

If y'all want to sit down for a Change of Command have at it but I think the Army needs to hold on to some traditions.

And yes the whole gift giving thing needs to be reviewed.

Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss.

Then make command tours 3 to 4 years. Ours seem to check out ever 18 to 24 months or less.
 

rmc_wannabe

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The only reason I can see doing a parade with CoC is if you tack on Unit level awards, promotions, or another unit level tradition like Trooping the Colour or honouring a battle or commemoration; having a parade solely because it's time to swap is not on.

When you make it about the u it and their accomplishments, it should make it harder for it to turn into the "I love me" circle jerk that has become the norm..
 

Eye In The Sky

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I would prefer to see promotions, H & As done separately from CofC/CofA ceremonies. The CofC/CofA really should be for the Outgoings to say thanks and end their Command or Appointment on a positive note.

Like you said, save Parades for unit-important milestones or historical pride points etc.

Not all COs are bad and CofC parades aren’t necessarily “bad” either.

I know we are trending away from traditional events but… going too far can be bad as well.
 

OldSolduer

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I would prefer to see promotions, H & As done separately from CofC/CofA ceremonies. The CofC/CofA really should be for the Outgoings to say thanks and end their Command or Appointment on a positive note.

Like you said, save Parades for unit-important milestones or historical pride points etc.

Not all COs are bad and CofC parades aren’t necessarily “bad” either.

I know we are trending away from traditional events but… going too far can be bad as well.
Agreed - we have customs and traditions for reasons. Recognizing people that have gone above and beyond on a CoC parade is a good thing. Its not always about the CO.
 

SupersonicMax

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Agreed - we have customs and traditions for reasons. Recognizing people that have gone above and beyond on a CoC parade is a good thing. Its not always about the CO.
I’d rather do a 20 minutes town hall a couple of times a year, update the unit on what’s going on and recognize people during that event, than wasting a week getting ready for a parade when people could be turning wrenches and fixing aircraft instead (doing the work we pay them to do and the job they joined to do).
 

rmc_wannabe

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I’d rather do a 20 minutes town hall a couple of times a year, update the unit on what’s going on and recognize people during that event, than wasting a week getting ready for a parade when people could be turning wrenches and fixing aircraft instead (doing the work we pay them to do and the job they joined to do).
This must be a cultural difference I guess between us (Army vs. Air Force/Navy).

If it takes a week for y'all to prep for a parade, I don't blame you for wanting to scrap them...
 

OldSolduer

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I’d rather do a 20 minutes town hall a couple of times a year, update the unit on what’s going on and recognize people during that event, than wasting a week getting ready for a parade when people could be turning wrenches and fixing aircraft instead (doing the work we pay them to do and the job they joined to do).
That’s you. The RCAF does things differently and I have no issues with that. You have real things to do.

This is what The Army does. Let it be.
 
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