markppcli
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We could probably also get some F86s or M48s cheap, doesn’t mean they’d be a good use of moneyWell I bet we could get these cheap
We could probably also get some F86s or M48s cheap, doesn’t mean they’d be a good use of moneyWell I bet we could get these cheap
Sheesh lighten up. Ironic that Vietnam has the equivalent of about our entire stock of C3 in one shed.And why? It was determined years ago that the C1 wasn’t effective anymore, and that is basically just a C1 (without muzzle swell).
well they got them pretty cheap…Sheesh lighten up. Ironic that Vietnam has the equivalent of about our entire stock of C3 in one shed.
Military and civilian deaths for the North, the South and the VC combined estimated as up to 1.8 million does not sound cheap.well they got them pretty cheap…
Military and civilian deaths for the North, the South and the VC combined estimated as up to 1.8 million does not sound cheap.
Okay now I am seeing where you went with that.Revolutionary Training: The 82nd Airborne's Integration Of Drone Munitions
In an innovative move that marks a significant shift in military tactics, the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Liberty is leading the Army into a new era ofdronexl.co
The new Marine infantry battalion is slimmer, saltier and more techy
Phase one concluded in June. Phase two begins in 2023.www.marinecorpstimes.com
Engaging....
Dispersion is happening.
50 km USMC Companies with integral fire support.
5 km US Army Squads with integral drones capable of dropping munitions precisely necessitating range revisions in training areas.
US Army Squads also equipped with Javelins capable of reaching out to the 2.5 to 5 km band.
Where exactly does an 11 km cannon fit given those range constraints?
I don't doubt the problems associated with command, control, coordination and supply. I understand the difficulties in trying to co-ordinate a dispersed artillery park.
Setting those noteworthy difficulties aside, what does an 11 km gun bring to the fight when Squads are being dispersed over Battalion frontages and Companies are operating independently in Brigade areas?
155mm cannons are reaching out over 70 km. That seems to be more in keeping with the templates being discussed for the Squads and Companies.
Do I realistically envisage an M119 in every platoon weapons det? No. Of course not. I just don't see an 11 km weapon as being compatible with the dispersed operations currently envisaged that are under development.
No, I am assured by DLR that an AGL is a perfect replacement for a mortar.When one looks at the M101 105mm, a 120mm Mortar offers more in terms of range and payload, as well as ease of movement.
@KevinB beat me to much of what I was going to try and get at...Dispersion is happening.
50 km USMC Companies with integral fire support.
5 km US Army Squads with integral drones capable of dropping munitions precisely necessitating range revisions in training areas.
US Army Squads also equipped with Javelins capable of reaching out to the 2.5 to 5 km band.
Who is the genius that told you that? What a crock of shit.No, I am assured by DLR that an AGL is a perfect replacement for a mortar.
That was the whole reason we got the C16….Who is the genius that told you that? What a crock of shit.
Revolutionary Training: The 82nd Airborne's Integration Of Drone Munitions
In an innovative move that marks a significant shift in military tactics, the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Liberty is leading the Army into a new era ofdronexl.co
The new Marine infantry battalion is slimmer, saltier and more techy
Phase one concluded in June. Phase two begins in 2023.www.marinecorpstimes.com
Engaging....
Dispersion is happening.
50 km USMC Companies with integral fire support.
5 km US Army Squads with integral drones capable of dropping munitions precisely necessitating range revisions in training areas.
US Army Squads also equipped with Javelins capable of reaching out to the 2.5 to 5 km band.
Where exactly does an 11 km cannon fit given those range constraints?
I don't doubt the problems associated with command, control, coordination and supply. I understand the difficulties in trying to co-ordinate a dispersed artillery park.
Setting those noteworthy difficulties aside, what does an 11 km gun bring to the fight when Squads are being dispersed over Battalion frontages and Companies are operating independently in Brigade areas?
155mm cannons are reaching out over 70 km. That seems to be more in keeping with the templates being discussed for the Squads and Companies.
Do I realistically envisage an M119 in every platoon weapons det? No. Of course not. I just don't see an 11 km weapon as being compatible with the dispersed operations currently envisaged that are under development.
Sadly that was the justification for the C-16, they pulled the 60mm Mortar.Who is the genius that told you that? What a crock of shit.
Add to the fact if you need targeting software then its not an infantry weapon. The targeting software should be a well trained soldier. We are too reliant on techy solutions.Sadly that was the justification for the C-16, they pulled the 60mm Mortar.
The fact that they are complementary weapons wasn’t relevant as it seemed that someone has decided in the CA that any new weapons/concepts need to replace an existing system.
One could have argued much more reasonably that the C-16 was a M2 .50 replacement - but then it wouldn’t have provided numbers (I’m guessing) for a 1 / Platoon establishment.
The fact that the weight of the C-16 makes it fairly only reasonable for fixed positions or vehicles apparently wasn’t considered, or at least factored heavily enough to make the point it can’t be a Pl Spt Wpn for a LIB or Mech Inf unit.
But for the Artillery this could work as an advantage as are currently 3 types of guns fielded. The M777, the LG-1 and the C3A1.
The LG-1 and C3A1 are pretty much self divesting - but could be replaced with both M109 and Archer type systems. The only hiccup gets when DLR may/will want to consider HIMARS (or other wheeled MLR system) as yet another replacement system - so you may just get one SPA and HIMARS.
I suspect you will end up with M109’s again - which isn’t bad, and if you want a 52cal barrel BAE has done it.
I suspect if Canada wanted BAE would build you M109A8, as they’ve been shopping it around a bunch.
You don’t need a fancy FCS, you can use iron sights or a red dot - but a FCS with LRF and ballistic reticle does help.Add to the fact if you need targeting software then its not an infantry weapon. The targeting software should be a well trained soldier. We are too reliant on techy solutions.
And infantry eat crayons.....You don’t need a fancy FCS, you can use iron sights or a red dot - but a FCS with LRF and ballistic reticle does help.
But keeping mind nearly everything these days has some sort of electro-optic, those are enablers - and should not be discarded.
I mean the LAV turret is run by Infantry, and it’s got a lot of switches and knobs
Sadly that seems to be an army process. The number of times I've heard people say "we had to give up Y to get X" or "we couldn't afford to maintain Y anymore" or "we don't have the PYs to keep both X and Y in service." Personally I think its part of the short focus on today and what we need for our deployed rotos and not the army as a whole.Sadly that was the justification for the C-16, they pulled the 60mm Mortar.
The fact that they are complementary weapons wasn’t relevant as it seemed that someone has decided in the CA that any new weapons/concepts need to replace an existing system.
There are two distinct projects: IFM and LRPF - both unfunded and with some scope for LG1 and C3 replacement. A lot of folks are saying "it's a great time to be a gunner" I'll wait until the Latvia SP UOR funding and the IFM & LRPF funding comes through before I start dancing.The LG-1 and C3A1 are pretty much self divesting - but could be replaced with both M109 and Archer type systems. The only hiccup gets when DLR may/will want to consider HIMARS (or other wheeled MLR system) as yet another replacement system - so you may just get one SPA and HIMARS.
I expect that if the UOR goes M109 that an A6 is most likely as I think BAE is still working on A6 to A7 conversions for the US. They'd have to let us jump the line again like for the M777. Not sure if BAE has the capacity to do M109-52s just yet.I suspect you will end up with M109’s again - which isn’t bad, and if you want a 52cal barrel BAE has done it.
If I recall correctly then the M109A8 was the interim designation for the ERCA (with an L58 barrel) which eventually became the M1299. The M109-52 is a different kettle of fish. The M1299 has died while the M109-52 seems to be in its 8th month of gestation. My guess is that either way Canada would stay away from a gun that's still in Beta testing. But then again.I suspect if Canada wanted BAE would build you M109A8, as they’ve been shopping it around a bunch.
The M109A7 is an entirely different (Bradley based) chassis - no sense in getting an A6 then needing to throw 1/2 of it away to upgrade to A7.Sadly that seems to be an army process. The number of times I've heard people say "we had to give up Y to get X" or "we couldn't afford to maintain Y anymore" or "we don't have the PYs to keep both X and Y in service." Personally I think its part of the short focus on today and what we need for our deployed rotos and not the army as a whole.
There are two distinct projects: IFM and LRPF - both unfunded and with some scope for LG1 and C3 replacement. A lot of folks are saying "it's a great time to be a gunner" I'll wait until the Latvia SP UOR funding and the IFM & LRPF funding comes through before I start dancing.
I expect that if the UOR goes M109 that an A6 is most likely as I think BAE is still working on A6 to A7 conversions for the US. They'd have to let us jump the line again like for the M777. Not sure if BAE has the capacity to do M109-52s just yet.
If I recall correctly then the M109A8 was the interim designation for the ERCA (with an L58 barrel) which eventually became the M1299. The M109-52 is a different kettle of fish. The M1299 has died while the M109-52 seems to be in its 8th month of gestation. My guess is that either way Canada would stay away from a gun that's still in Beta testing. But then again.
I hate using Wikipedia as a reference but that's exactly what it sounds like to me. I presume there is a substantial cost saving in using the same ordnance, turret and fire control system.The M109A7 is an entirely different (Bradley based) chassis - no sense in getting an A6 then needing to throw 1/2 of it away to upgrade to A7.
In October 2013, BAE received a $668 million contract to begin LRIP of the M109A7. The first M109A6 and M992A2 vehicles were rebuilt to M109A7 and M992A3 standards as part of LRIP beginning in summer 2014. LRIP deliveries began in April 2015.[44] The contract for FRP was signed in December 2017, with 48 vehicles slated for construction.[45] The Army plans to upgrade 689 Paladins to A7-standard.[46]
Since the M1299 has gone down the tubes, I don't think they have any choice. My guess is that they'll do only some of them to start. The new armd div's GS battalions, perhaps.I don’t think it’s a beta at this point - more of a waiting for a customer to start LRIP.
I expect the Army here will somewhat grudgingly move to a 52 cal A8 next FY. Frankly they should stop the A6 conversions, mothball those (or FMS/FMA them) and just get new compete systems.
Seeing that AMPV is new and the A7 conversion is, makes me think we'll be seeing Bradleys for some time to come. That actually creates a very good tracked fleet to concentrate on with the LAVs as a second fleet. Honestly if both the Bradley and LAV could be converted to Moog turrets you'd have weapon commonality as well.Given APMV is a Bradley chassis as well, I suspect the ability to produce the chassis far outstrips what is current being done.
That makes sense to me and timelines don't seem to matter to Canada it's not as if we need to make an interim purchase. To me if we go "interim" on an A^, then that is where we will be for a long time.With the US Army, the A6 to A7 mod allowed the obsolete chassis to be divested.
Since Canada doesn’t have A6’s the isn’t much point in getting A6’s to upgrade to A7’s then eventually upgrade to A8’s
I wish we would use the term battalion as well - have for some time - when I was a young teen gunner I always wondered what the sense was of having a regiment (7 Toronto) inside a regiment (The Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery). Don't get me started on the armoured or infantry.I’d suggest that a fresh A8 buy of 116 would be Canada’s best choice.
That provides 4 X 24 gun Regiments (I wish you used BN) for 96 (baking extras for Reserve units or the RRCA to be reconstituted and a hybrid Reg/Res Artillery construct to be created).
8 for W Bty in Gagetown (if it’s a thing still)
8 for Shilo School
4 for Wpn and Vehicle Tech schools
That allows for 2RCHA to have all the M777’s
1RCHA and 5RALC to be 109 with full 3 8 gun batteries, as well as two full PRes Regiments (which I suspect would take nearly all the RCA units other than those tasked to AD).
That should still allows for the LRPF program