• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

British PM Boris Johnson and Now Liz Truss resigns

Kirkhill

Army.ca Relic
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
5,438
Points
1,160
That’s what happens when the PM is able to amass power into the PMO over 50+ years with no push back from MP’s of all parties. They all did it for the team.

The Brit squabble was between the MPs and the Party Members. The Party Members by and large wanted Johnson and the Brexiteers. The majority of the MPs wanted Sunak and the City (the Financiers).

The same squabble happened in the Labour Party. The Party Members, and the Unions wanted Corbyn. The MPs generally wanted anybody but...

In Canada the Liberals are driven by the Party - The PMO is the directing organ of the Party and the Party's Directors. The PM and the MPs dance to their tune. The Party Members supply democratic cover.

The Conservatives are still responsive to the Party Members and the MPs occasionally act like Brit MPs. That scares everybody and keeps the Liberals in power.

The NDP, Bloc, Greens etc are stage dressing.
 

RangerRay

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
1,257
Points
1,110
The Brit squabble was between the MPs and the Party Members. The Party Members by and large wanted Johnson and the Brexiteers. The majority of the MPs wanted Sunak and the City (the Financiers).

The same squabble happened in the Labour Party. The Party Members, and the Unions wanted Corbyn. The MPs generally wanted anybody but...

In Canada the Liberals are driven by the Party - The PMO is the directing organ of the Party and the Party's Directors. The PM and the MPs dance to their tune. The Party Members supply democratic cover.

The Conservatives are still responsive to the Party Members and the MPs occasionally act like Brit MPs. That scares everybody and keeps the Liberals in power.

The NDP, Bloc, Greens etc are stage dressing.
Part of the problem here is that leaders leverage their election by the party membership at large into power over the MP’s/MLA’s. Lots of PM’s, Premiers and party leaders in general have been able to stick around for longer than they should because they point to their election by the party membership and electorate as large as proof that they know what they’re doing and the MP’s are nervous nellies or not as brilliant as the leader. Not to mention the MP’s reliance on the leader to sign their nomination papers, plush appointments, etc.

At least in the UK and other Westminster parliamentary democracies, the leader has to keep an eye on the electorate and the caucus, who actually exercise some independence.
 

dapaterson

Army.ca Relic
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
11,578
Points
1,090
So, while sitting as a MP in Britain, the new PM declared himself a permanent resident of the US to reduce his tax burden, and his wife declared herself a non-resident of the UK for tax purposes as well.

A little too on brand for the Tories, really...

 

Kirkhill

Army.ca Relic
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
5,438
Points
1,160
So, while sitting as a MP in Britain, the new PM declared himself a permanent resident of the US to reduce his tax burden, and his wife declared herself a non-resident of the UK for tax purposes as well.

A little too on brand for the Tories, really...


Yeah - suffice it to say I am not a Rishi fan. I think he will get along just fine with young Justin.
 

TacticalTea

Sr. Member
Reaction score
1,192
Points
960
So, I'm seeing attempts at an answer here and there, but does anyone have a good explanation on why our MPs are so weak compared to their American or British counterparts? Why is it that the PMO ''amassed power''? Why is it that the Party came to be so powerful?

I'm not all that familiar with the intricacies of our parliamentary system.

Feel free to PM if that's too much of a thread derail.
 

dapaterson

Army.ca Relic
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
11,578
Points
1,090
UK and AUS still demand that party leaders have the confidence of caucus. Canadian parties grant leadership based on broad based party plebiscites. Thus. even if every MP knows that Fred Flintstone is a fool, they lack mechanisms to force him out as party leader.
 

Kirkhill

Army.ca Relic
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
5,438
Points
1,160
So, I'm seeing attempts at an answer here and there, but does anyone have a good explanation on why our MPs are so weak compared to their American or British counterparts? Why is it that the PMO ''amassed power''? Why is it that the Party came to be so powerful?

I'm not all that familiar with the intricacies of our parliamentary system.

Feel free to PM if that's too much of a thread derail.

Never loath to venture an opinion, me.

I think part of the issue is that our politics were entrenched when Canada had a very small population and the moneyed class was accordingly very powerful and influential with direct connections to some of the richest banks in the world - in London. The London-Montreal connection was very strong. That resulted in the Family Compact and Chateau Clique remaining intact regardless of the party labels and colours.

I saw something of the same thing in the States with Alaska. Alaska has a very small population so everybody has access to the highest ranking politicians. And those politicians, Ted Stevens comes to mind, managed to secure very influential positions. Stevens dominated a lot of the senate from 1968 until 2009 - 41 years.

You don't want to be the king, or the prime minister. You want to make the king.

In Canada our kingmakers work very hard at staying out of the limelight.
 

Kirkhill

Army.ca Relic
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
5,438
Points
1,160
UK and AUS still demand that party leaders have the confidence of caucus. Canadian parties grant leadership based on broad based party plebiscites. Thus. even if every MP knows that Fred Flintstone is a fool, they lack mechanisms to force him out as party leader.

Do they lack the mechanisms or is it just that they are neutered by the flow of money from the Party coffers?
 

TacticalTea

Sr. Member
Reaction score
1,192
Points
960
Current party rules have removed power from caucus - in the interest of broad based party support, they have disempowered elected representatives.
In the case of the party in power though, can't the MPs just remove the Prime Minister anyway? Responsible government and all that...

Edit: It seems we should have our own version of the 1922 committee... call it the 2022 committee...
 

SeaKingTacco

Army.ca Legend
Donor
Reaction score
7,016
Points
1,010
In the case of the party in power though, can't the MPs just remove the Prime Minister anyway? Responsible government and all that...
They absolutely can, they have just forgotten how.

The “democratization” of political parties in Canada, where party members instead of caucus elect the party leader has been a disaster.

Parties are ripe for hostile takeover by organized groups who can buy memberships, sweep in and elect somebody…interesting. Despite what Caucus says.

In my view, caucus should elect the leader- full stop. They pick a crap leader- they will wear it next election.
 

TacticalTea

Sr. Member
Reaction score
1,192
Points
960
They absolutely can, they have just forgotten how.

The “democratization” of political parties in Canada, where party members instead of caucus elect the party leader has been a disaster.

Parties are ripe for hostile takeover by organized groups who can buy memberships, sweep in and elect somebody…interesting. Despite what Caucus says.

In my view, caucus should elect the leader- full stop. They pick a crap leader- they will wear it next election.
Yeah. It gave us Danielle Smith...

I don't think Party leadership should pick who gets to run for them in ridings, though. Primaries are the way to go, imho.

Edit, phrasing.
 

SeaKingTacco

Army.ca Legend
Donor
Reaction score
7,016
Points
1,010
Yeah. It gave us Danielle Smith...

I don't think Party leadership should pick who gets to run for them in ridings, though. Primaries are the way to go, imho.

Edit, phrasing.
Agreed- the “DearLeader” signing nomination papers is crap. Trust your riding associations.
 
Top