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All Things CAF and Covid/ Covid Vaccine [merged]

childs56

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I was double vaccinated, Work required it. Plus like many former Military I had so many vaccines shot into my arm what was one more. Well the second shot dropped me on by butt for 24hrs. I was out, could not function besides sleep for 12hrs. for a year afterwards I had regular headaches, shortness of breath, tiredness. The Drs did not care to look into these signs and symptoms. Denying it had anything to do with the vaccines. (sounds familiar).
Fast forward a few months later we are coming out of Covid yaaa. I caught covid, people laughed and were like your kidding.
During Covid I worked on units where the majority if not all of the people were infected. Never caught it until the end when I was not wkaing near people much. Mask did not protect me, the vaccine did not protect me. A few people said if you did not have your vaccines then your symptoms would have been much much worse. I had to laugh.
I literally had "close" contact for less then a minute with a person who was deemed safe after his isolation period. I was masked up, gowned up, glasses the whole dress. Washed hands before, during and after, changed masks etc as per instructions. Three of us in the building caught covid on the same few days. none of us were in contact with each other. Makes no sense.

But you know I have those other vaccines and although I do not willingly go into measles/ mumps infected rooms, or stab myself on purpose with tetanus filled nails, rabid animals layers. I do not fear catching those things to which I have been vaccinated for. why because they work.

This covid vaccine even the manufacture stated it was not as effective as other vaccines were against other diseases etc. or even different variants of covid.
Sorry you can think the vaccine protected you, and others. Right now we are seeing the negatives of the vaccines, heart problems, breathing problems, cognitive problems. Israel was suing Pzier due the vaccine not being effective like promised. A deal was made for some undisclosed compensation and things disappeared.
I watched some of the most vulnerable people in society with and with out the vaccines catch covid over the two years of panic. Their outcomes beat the statistics. We should of had mass deaths in the groups I work with. We did not see that.
I know there were lots of deaths in certain demographics, but how many of those were directly related to and or caused by other factors, known or not known? That is the real question, many people were labeled as death from Covid when inf act they dies of other reasons. That is listed in multiple reports across the country.
 

Kilted

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You think the the C19 vax is mandatory travelling everywhere outside Canada? You might want to look into that.

They're 0% effective in stopping transmission. Zero. They are also zero % effective in preventing a vaccinated person getting it. How many people do you know that are vaxd and still got C19, even multiple times? If the only thing they do is stop a worse outcome for a tiny margin of at-risk people, then that really is only a direct personal impact now isn't it?

I can see you support it still... if you think it's mandatory all around the world and that it actually works very well.
This is the type of thing on Facebook that I would report as false information.
 

QV

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For the record, when I get trolling emojis from Oceanbonfire, kev994, or kilted, it feels like I’ve said something right. :cool:
 

dimsum

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They're 0% effective in stopping transmission. Zero. They are also zero % effective in preventing a vaccinated person getting it. How many people do you know that are vaxd and still got C19, even multiple times? If the only thing they do is stop a worse outcome for a tiny margin of at-risk people, then that really is only a direct personal impact now isn't it?
I'll need sources on that. And not from Breitbart.

If a vaccinated person still got Covid, but the symptoms were far less significant (minor cold-like symptoms, rather than bedridden for a few days or worse) than if they weren't vaccinated, then is it still a bad thing? Or is it a benefit?

Because that happened to people I know who would not be considered at-risk, including myself.
 

Quirky

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If a vaccinated person still got Covid, but the symptoms were far less significant (minor cold-like symptoms, rather than bedridden for a few days or worse) than if they weren't vaccinated, then is it still a bad thing?

You are assuming the "vaccine" made a difference at all vs. what the person might experience unvaccinated. People can claim that the "vaccine" helped stave off even worse symptoms, but there is no way to know for sure how you would've felt otherwise.

Okay, I’ll bite as I’m genuinely curious. What is it then?

Vaccine is supposed to prevent you getting infected from the disease in the first place. These C19 vaccines don't prevent infection, don't prevent symptoms and don't prevent spread. You still get infected, still get sick and you can still spread the virus. Great vaccines!
 

QV

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How much time have you spent studying vaccination theory, epidemiology, public health, or anything else?

Exactly.
Did you know people in those fields have varying expert opinions on all this? Only one side gets cancelled. That ok with you?
 

dimsum

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You are assuming the "vaccine" made a difference at all vs. what the person might experience unvaccinated. People can claim that the "vaccine" helped stave off even worse symptoms, but there is no way to know for sure how you would've felt otherwise.
One way to tell would be to see what the hospitalization rates and severity of cases are through time. If the rates and/or severity is lower, the big difference is that the majority of folks were vaccinated.

With that, you can also see whether the severity is linked to patients who are vaccinated or not.

Did you know people in those fields have varying expert opinions on all this? Only one side gets cancelled. That ok with you?
The side that isn't backed by the vast majority of science? The side that pushed Ivermectin as a cure?

I'm still waiting on the source for the 0% success rate, by the way.
 

CBH99

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So as someone who’s watched this thread progress, I can say I’ve found quite a bit of enjoyment reading both sides of the argument.

This is one topic where everybody, including myself, is going to have a strong opinion that is a combination of publicly available data, personal experience, the successes & failures of a variety of mandates, and the natural temptation of each side to conclude that they are more right than wrong.

I have personally actually really enjoyed forgetting my own opinion while reading through these pages, and keeping an open mind/light heart about it all, and only asking questions for clarity.

Both sides, in my opinion anyway, have extremely valid arguments. Some of the points turn out to be moot, but for the most part as I read through the back & forth - I absolutely get both sides.


How much time have you spent studying vaccination theory, epidemiology, public health, or anything else?

Exactly.
To be fair, how much time have you?

Or I? Or most people?

Unless that is someone’s employment or field of study, I suspect not many of us studied vaccination theory, epidemiology, public health, or anything else related to the above in any real way.

Prior to Covid, other than reading the odd news article about a health matter, I can say I probably haven’t ‘studied’ those fields at all. Even now I wouldn’t really call myself a study of any of them.


Did you know people in those fields have varying expert opinions on all this? Only one side gets cancelled. That ok with you?
Excellent point, regardless of someone’s position on the issue.

Because that question isn’t actually about Covid. It’s about censorship.

It’s about various experts in related fields either being given positive media exposure or ignored/avoided.


Obviously those that are getting positive media exposure will be heard by mainstream society, and those that are ignored/cast away will not be heard by those same people, even if their points are valid.

<Anyways, morning mumblings over. Back to reading…>
 

QV

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One way to tell would be to see what the hospitalization rates and severity of cases are through time. If the rates and/or severity is lower, the big difference is that the majority of folks were vaccinated.

With that, you can also see whether the severity is linked to patients who are vaccinated or not.


The side that isn't backed by the vast majority of science? The side that pushed Ivermectin as a cure?

I'm still waiting on the source for the 0% success rate, by the way.
I said they are zero % effective at stopping transmission. I say again; they do NOT stop transmission. Do you need a peer reviewed study? The obvious observation validates this when vaccinated people still get and transmit C19 multiple times, including probably most people reading this who have some personal experiences.
 

QV

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So as someone who’s watched this thread progress, I can say I’ve found quite a bit of enjoyment reading both sides of the argument.

This is one topic where everybody, including myself, is going to have a strong opinion that is a combination of publicly available data, personal experience, the successes & failures of a variety of mandates, and the natural temptation of each side to conclude that they are more right than wrong.

I have personally actually really enjoyed forgetting my own opinion while reading through these pages, and keeping an open mind/light heart about it all, and only asking questions for clarity.

Both sides, in my opinion anyway, have extremely valid arguments. Some of the points turn out to be moot, but for the most part as I read through the back & forth - I absolutely get both sides.



To be fair, how much time have you?

Or I? Or most people?

Unless that is someone’s employment or field of study, I suspect not many of us studied vaccination theory, epidemiology, public health, or anything else related to the above in any real way.

Prior to Covid, other than reading the odd news article about a health matter, I can say I probably haven’t ‘studied’ those fields at all. Even now I wouldn’t really call myself a study of any of them.



Excellent point, regardless of someone’s position on the issue.

Because that question isn’t actually about Covid. It’s about censorship.

It’s about various experts in related fields either being given positive media exposure or ignored/avoided.


Obviously those that are getting positive media exposure will be heard by mainstream society, and those that are ignored/cast away will not be heard by those same people, even if their points are valid.

<Anyways, morning mumblings over. Back to reading…>
The media are masters at justifying censorship by trotting out the crazies as an example why they censor, while censoring the experts too.
 

winds_13

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I'll need sources on that. And not from Breitbart.

If a vaccinated person still got Covid, but the symptoms were far less significant (minor cold-like symptoms, rather than bedridden for a few days or worse) than if they weren't vaccinated, then is it still a bad thing? Or is it a benefit?

Because that happened to people I know who would not be considered at-risk, including myself.
So, you're basing your opinion on anecdotes? How do you know what reaction these individuals would have had if they were unvaccinated?

Throughout the pandemic, one of the most difficult issues dealing with COVID19 was that a large proportion of cases were asymptomatic yet still spread the virus. This was the case through all variants, regardless of vaccination rates.

I know people who were bed ridden after catching COVID even though they had one or two boosters. I also know unvaccinated people who displayed no or only mild (sore throat) symptoms. Actually, the only people I know who were bed ridden following COVID infection were vaccinated with atleast one booster... Is this proof of anything, or would that be attributing causality without merit?
 

Brad Sallows

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Some muddling going on. As an individual, being vaccinated may help you defeat a virus quickly - so quickly that you never realize you were infected. But a vaccine isn't a magical barrier to being infected, nor a barrier to shedding a (probably very) little virus while infected. I can only suppose this is what people mean when they advance claims about "prevention of infection". I have no idea how many times I've been exposed and infected; I only know that I've been without symptoms since this all started.

Time and quantity matter. As a community, being vaccinated will be effective in reducing transmission, because the window of opportunity for each vaccinated infected individual to infect another tends to be much shorter than for an unvaccinated infected individual, and the virus quantities will tend to be lower. At the extreme, eradication can be effected.
 

Navy_Pete

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I will admit I am no expert on this but from what I have gleaned very few HEALTHY people died of Covid.

Co morbidities had a big hand in it.
On the flip side, some incredibly healthy people and kids have died. And some previously very healthy people have long term effects (including severe organ and respiratory damage, which now renders them vulnerable to getting killed by other common diseases).

And the co-morbidities aren't rare, a very large part of the Canadian population is older, a large portion are overweight, and other very common health issues. At the end of the day, a lot of people are dead due to COVID who otherwise would still be alive.
 

PuckChaser

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Good thing the vaccine stops people from getting sick and being infectious, then no one will ever get sick again... oh wait...
 
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