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2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

Remius

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It's not so much that PP is an extremist, but he's actively lending credence to conspiracy theories, which is problematic in that it legitimizes the same sort of divisive populist rhetoric the likes of Sarah Palin and Donald Trump brought to the forefront of American politics.

Besides, the way he treats his fellow contenders shows he doesn't have the character I look for in an aspiring head of state.
Exactly this. His current rhetoric is unlikely to unite the CPC and may actually split it.

I don’t think he’s extremist per se, I think he wants that fringe bloc to vote for him though so he’s saying a lot of what they want to hear.
 

Good2Golf

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The gas lighting is next level. To suggest PP and the CPC are some sort of extremist nuts.
No….like you said, they’re gently moving left…
 

IKnowNothing

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Exactly this. His current rhetoric is unlikely to unite the CPC and may actually split it.

I don’t think he’s extremist per se, I think he wants that fringe bloc to vote for him though so he’s saying a lot of what they want to hear.
Agreed. I think the only thing about him that is "extreme" is his ambition. I don't believe he's got a GOP style malignantly regressive agenda, I just think he's a career politician who has been thirsting to be PM since he was a teenager, and is willing to completely undermine the fabric of Canadian political discourse to get there. I think he's arrogant enough to think that he can control this movement that he's fueling, and desperate enough to follow where it takes him if he can't.
 

brihard

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The gas lighting is next level. To suggest PP and the CPC are some sort of extremist nuts.
Not liking what you’re being told isn’t ‘gaslighting’, nor is PP being described herein as an extremist. He is, however, pandering heavily to those who are, from the crypto-bro nonsense, to being buddy-buddy with the Ottawa convoy idiots who wanted the government forcibly removed, to pledging to meddle with the BoC governorship, to peddling and amplifying the WEF conspiracy theories. It’s a low-rent, low-sophistication campaign aimed squarely at a cohort that no responsible government or party should be actively inviting to the dance. It appears he’s more interested in outflanking Maxime Bernier than he is in presenting a serious and credible alternative to our current government. And the party is going along with it.
 

SeaKingTacco

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Agreed. I think the only thing about him that is "extreme" is his ambition. I don't believe he's got a GOP style malignantly regressive agenda, I just think he's a career politician who has been thirsting to be PM since he was a teenager, and is willing to completely undermine the fabric of Canadian political discourse to get there. I think he's arrogant enough to think that he can control this movement that he's fueling, and desperate enough to follow where it takes him if he can't.
Wait- are we still talking about the CPC or have we switched to the Liberals?
 
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IKnowNothing

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Wait- are we still talking about the CPC or have we switched to the Liberals?
There's a lot of shared qualities.
The political ambition, lack of real world work experience, substitution of charisma for leadership, and willingness to prioritize self over country in both of JT and PP should be glaringly obvious to everyone on either side of the aisle.

Canada needs better.
 

QV

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Not liking what you’re being told isn’t ‘gaslighting’, nor is PP being described herein as an extremist. He is, however, pandering heavily to those who are, from the crypto-bro nonsense, to being buddy-buddy with the Ottawa convoy idiots who wanted the government forcibly removed, to pledging to meddle with the BoC governorship, to peddling and amplifying the WEF conspiracy theories. It’s a low-rent, low-sophistication campaign aimed squarely at a cohort that no responsible government or party should be actively inviting to the dance. It appears he’s more interested in outflanking Maxime Bernier than he is in presenting a serious and credible alternative to our current government. And the party is going along with it.

I suppose you’d think this way, Brihard, if you believed the convoy were a racist bunch of insurrectionists, Trudeau‘s use of the EA was spot on, freezing bank accounts of convoy supporters is just and right, the WEF is putting Canada‘s best interests first, Trudeau’s economic policies have been stellar for all Canadians, the BoC leadership should get a pass for their oopsies, and the fiat currency situation in the west is just about right.

No thanks.
 

Good2Golf

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I suppose you’d think this way, Brihard, if you believed the convoy were a racist bunch of insurrectionists, Trudeau‘s use of the EA was spot on, freezing bank accounts of convoy supporters is just and right, the WEF is putting Canada‘s best interests first, Trudeau’s economic policies have been stellar for all Canadians, the BoC leadership should get a pass for their oopsies, and the fiat currency situation in the west is just about right.

No thanks.
What would be PP’s most important improvement then, would you think, to be less progressive and stop pandering to the left?
 

Remius

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I suppose you’d think this way, Brihard, if you believed the convoy were a racist bunch of insurrectionists, Trudeau‘s use of the EA was spot on, freezing bank accounts of convoy supporters is just and right, the WEF is putting Canada‘s best interests first, Trudeau’s economic policies have been stellar for all Canadians, the BoC leadership should get a pass for their oopsies, and the fiat currency situation in the west is just about right.

No thanks.
I don’t think that Bitcoin shilling, attacking the BoC’s indépendance and excluding Canada from an economic networking group is a good economic policy platform either. He hasn’t shown he’s serious about serious stuff.
 

The Bread Guy

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... I don't believe he's got a GOP style malignantly regressive agenda, I just think he's a career politician who has been thirsting to be PM since he was a teenager, and is willing to completely undermine disrupt the fabric of Canadian political discourse to get there ...
My view more like in yellow here. I don't know if he's got a grand vision other than to "do things differently" - which may or may not work. My sense is that PP feels more like a rabble rouser who may enjoy being in opposition (especially against Team Red) more than having to keep party members in line & all the other "political bureaucracy" of caucus management.
... I think he's arrogant enough to think that he can control this movement that he's fueling, and desperate enough to follow where it takes him if he can't.
And we've all known folks who've tried to tame that beast in the past, unsuccessfully.
 

IKnowNothing

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My view more like in yellow here. I don't know if he's got a grand vision other than to "do things differently" - which may or may not work. My sense is that PP feels more like a rabble rouser who may enjoy being in opposition (especially against Team Red) more than having to keep party members in line & all the other "political bureaucracy" of caucus management.

And we've all known folks who've tried to tame that beast in the past, unsuccessfully.
To the bold- I've seen the cynical suspicion in a couple places that he fully knows that he's taking the CPC somewhere unelectable, but it's as the champion to an extremely vocal and committed portion of the membership and will be able to survive a couple leadership reviews. Result being a decade at Stornoway with Leader of the opposition pay and perks to do nothing but rail away from his soapbox and contribute nothing to the governance of the country - pretty cushy gig. But that's a little....... conspiratorial :p
 

brihard

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I suppose you’d think this way, Brihard, if you believed the convoy were a racist bunch of insurrectionists, Trudeau‘s use of the EA was spot on, freezing bank accounts of convoy supporters is just and right, the WEF is putting Canada‘s best interests first, Trudeau’s economic policies have been stellar for all Canadians, the BoC leadership should get a pass for their oopsies, and the fiat currency situation in the west is just about right.

No thanks.
Literally everything you just said is dishonest. I challenge you to find me saying a single one of those things. Several are subjects I haven’t even spoken to. Step up and quote me, or retract your nonsense.
 

QV

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What would be PP’s most important improvement then, would you think, to be less progressive and stop pandering to the left?
I have to hope that he is not corrupt and that he will act with a moral and ethical compass. I hope he would act differently in situations such SNC Lavalin/AG, WE, etc.

It seems to me Trudeau is a corrupt unethical politician who’s actions are hurting our future.
 

QV

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Literally everything you just said is dishonest. I challenge you to find me saying a single one of those things. Several are subjects I haven’t even spoken to. Step up and quote me, or retract your nonsense.
I suggest people who say the things you say about PP typically have those views. Which are bullshit propagated by false or twisted media reporting. And you just said in the post I quoted “the Ottawa convoy idiots who wanted the government forcibly removed”. You and I both know that was not the vast majority of protest participants and neither does PP support the forced removal of government. But you further that false narrative in your post above saying that’s who PP hitched his ride to.
 

IKnowNothing

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Little game to take down the temperature of the thread- Build your ideal CPC Leader

Background -upbringing, education, career (non-political), career (political)
Approach/style
Policies - 3 or 4 key ones, could be broad could be specific

Mine
Background
  • blue collar or rural roots
  • business or stem educated (or life experience thereof)
  • track record of success, merit driven advancement in a field that isn't legal, consulting, politics etc.
  • no politics before 35
Approach
  • consensus/bridge builder
  • someone that can influence policy while not in power by working with others
  • even keeled
  • willing to stand up to and lead the membership and base

Policies
  • Balance budgets
  • Lean government. Trim fat, cut waste, deliver service in accountable manner.
  • Reform defense procurement and meet NATO targets
  • Grounded in reality, rises above conspiracy bs and partisan narratives
  • Sensible climate policy to enable a smooth and profitable long term transition to a post oil economy, take advantage of our resources and support Canadians throughout that time
  • Socially centre. Put abortion, LGBTQ rights etc to bed, acknowledge that people are people and stop being scared of differences, but also stop the viscous spiral of identity politics and moral grandstanding
 

OldSolduer

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Little game to take down the temperature of the thread- Build your ideal CPC Leader

Background -upbringing, education, career (non-political), career (political)
Approach/style
Policies - 3 or 4 key ones, could be broad could be specific

Mine
Background
  • blue collar or rural roots
  • business or stem educated (or life experience thereof)
  • track record of success, merit driven advancement in a field that isn't legal, consulting, politics etc.
  • no politics before 35
Approach
  • consensus/bridge builder
  • someone that can influence policy while not in power by working with others
  • even keeled
  • willing to stand up to and lead the membership and base

Policies
  • Balance budgets
  • Lean government. Trim fat, cut waste, deliver service in accountable manner.
  • Reform defense procurement and meet NATO targets
  • Grounded in reality, rises above conspiracy bs and partisan narratives
  • Sensible climate policy to enable a smooth and profitable long term transition to a post oil economy, take advantage of our resources and support Canadians throughout that time
  • Socially centre. Put abortion, LGBTQ rights etc to bed, acknowledge that people are people and stop being scared of differences, but also stop the viscous spiral of identity politics and moral grandstanding
You have just described a political unicorn..... ;)
 

brihard

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I suggest people who say the things you say about PP typically have those views. Which are bullshit propagated by false or twisted media reporting. And you just said in the post I quoted “the Ottawa convoy idiots who wanted the government forcibly removed”. You and I both know that was not the vast majority of protest participants and neither does PP support the forced removal of government. But you further that false narrative in your post above saying that’s who PP hitched his ride to.
I witnessed that and had that yelled at me in person by multiple people. As did others working the event. It was also a published desire of some of the ideological leaders. While it was certainly not everyone there, it was a known enough faction that that’s what politicians allowed themselves to align with. The words you tried to put in my mouth were “insurrectionist” and “racist”. I did not say these things.

You tried to attribute a bunch of other things to me too. I’m waiting to see if you have the integrity to back each one of them up or to retract them.
 

Remius

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Pierre Poilievre allowed himself to be linked to the convoy. It’s an association of convenience and a means to an end.

He wants to be PM. He needs to win the leadership of the party. He knows a large block of CPC supporters supported the convoy. He needs their vote and will pander to them by saying the same empty platitudes about freedom, trudeau, the WEF or whatever else.

It’s all calculated. Party unity be damned. But it’s short term gains that won’t necessarily translate well in the long term.

Regardless, nothing he is saying or proposing is of any real substance and all I see him eroding and dividing the party.

He isn’t the leader the CPC needs. But they will likely get him.
 

Halifax Tar

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Pierre Poilievre allowed himself to be linked to the convoy. It’s an association of convenience and a means to an end.

He wants to be PM. He needs to win the leadership of the party. He knows a large block of CPC supporters supported the convoy. He needs their vote and will pander to them by saying the same empty platitudes about freedom, trudeau, the WEF or whatever else.

It’s all calculated. Party unity be damned. But it’s short term gains that won’t necessarily translate well in the long term.

Regardless, nothing he is saying or proposing is of any real substance and all I see him eroding and dividing the party.

He isn’t the leader the CPC needs. But they will likely get him.

Slight correction he's not the Conservative leader the country needs. But we will likely get him.

My party needs to start thinking beyond winning party elections and start searching for what/who will win national elections.

We're basically handing the Libs 4 more years. But on the plus side they are Fing things up so bad when they do finally lose its will probably be catastrophic.
 
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