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2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

Halifax Tar

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Pre August 2021 - Trudeau (though I've never voted for him). Like I said, I hate the decision to prioritize attacking the CPC with the Covid wedge rather than lead the country. It stoked flames that O'Toole and the premiers helped keep largely dormant, and he stabbed them in the back for it. (For which Ford returned the favour by abandoning Ottawa to force Trudeau to be the villain)

Now- neither.

Singh.
 

Remius

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Trudeau isn’t running again. So I’ll wait and see who PP is facing. To see whether I vote for NOTA or whoever PP is facing.
 

IKnowNothing

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Eh. Doesn't do it for me. Give me a version of the NDP that has the grounding and grip on reality of scandic social democrats (social programs with balanced budgets, acceptance of people as people while still holding onto national heritage, support for the military) vs whatever it is we have and they'd have my vote everyday and twice on Sunday.

Until that day I'm a (seemingly soon to be) orphaned Red Tory voting for the candidate that I think best represents the riding.
 

ArmyRick

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Trudeau isn’t running again. So I’ll wait and see who PP is facing. To see whether I vote for NOTA or whoever PP is facing.
If Trudeau bows out, the Liberals are finished. Their is a stupid and irrational cult behind Trudeau. It won't carry to the others in the LPC.
 

ArmyRick

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Eh. Doesn't do it for me. Give me a version of the NDP that has the grounding and grip on reality of scandic social democrats (social programs with balanced budgets, acceptance of people as people while still holding onto national heritage, support for the military) vs whatever it is we have and they'd have my vote everyday and twice on Sunday.

Until that day I'm a (seemingly soon to be) orphaned Red Tory voting for the candidate that I think best represents the riding.
The only hope the NDP has is to completely dump its incompetent leader and put in a new face, they need to stop trying to "out liberal the liberals" so to speak.

The NDP needs a reality check and needs to focus on their core membership of years ago, union workers, labourers, single parents, people struggling, etc.
 

ArmyRick

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Personally I have voted Conservatives, Reform, NDP, Green Party and independent MPs. I am not tied or married to any one party.

I personally treat election time like a major job interview. You as a MP or MPP candidate are trying to earn my vote with a sound argument or re-earn my vote again.

We should all treat our politicians in this way. Scrutinize everything they propose, hold them accountable, etc.

For Pierre, he has the status quo upset and nervous, he damn well should. He is winning over the youth (under 30) support big time. I have seen this in several newspaper articles (sorry didn't save the links).

The typical attacks against PP is that he is authoritarian, racist and never going to actually lead the nation. Folks please.

The stupid ad hominem attack against anything conservative from the left (liberal or NDP) is way getting old and is BS. The majority of Canadians know this. I am very disappointed to see army.ca members that get in on this.

Trudeau earned his 2015 election, totally. He had a clean slate. His re-election in 2019 and 2021 shows me how freaking stupid some Canadians can be.
 

IKnowNothing

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For Pierre, he has the status quo upset and nervous, he damn well should. He is winning over the youth (under 30) support big time. I have seen this in several newspaper articles (sorry didn't save the links).

The typical attacks against PP is that he is authoritarian, racist and never going to actually lead the nation. Folks please.

The stupid ad hominem attack against anything conservative from the left (liberal or NDP) is way getting old and is BS. The majority of Canadians know this. I am very disappointed to see army.ca members that get in on this.
I haven't seen said attacks being put forward by his detractors in this thread. Can't attack him for what he's for, because no one really knows.
But he can be rightly criticized for being a populist that's openly courting and tacitly enabling Q style BS. Now you could argue that the ends justify the means if- when the dust settles- it's just a tactic he's using to gain power and then has plans for the good of the country.

The very fact that he's using the tactic has people nervous on multiple fronts
-what if's not a tactic and his vision for Canada is to weaponize emotion to install GOP style theocratic oligarchy
-regardless of his intentions, what if he can't control it and his "movement" invites the loons (Sloan/Hillier types) back into mainstream discourse

I remember when the most embarrassed I was for my riding and as a somewhat conservative in a LW academic program was when Miller compared the gun registry to Hitler. Now there's worse happening weekly.
In the last two-three months we've had MP's:
  • unironically calling a democratically elected PM a dictator while speaking in parliament
  • Buying into WEF conspiracy BS
  • Openly supporting the likes of Pat King
  • Being sore losers about losing influence so eroding confidence in democracy and tossing out the big scary buzzwords when they got outmaneuvered with the confidence deal
Canada deserves and needs a CPC (and leader of) that can advocate for and represent the best of Canadian conservative ideals in a constructive manner, not one that embraces the Murdochization of Canadian politics to contribute to and exploit the fear and ignorance of the disenfranchised.
 

Remius

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If Trudeau bows out, the Liberals are finished. Their is a stupid and irrational cult behind Trudeau. It won't carry to the others in the LPC.
That “cult” thing ended after his first majority. The problem is no real viable alternatives that are appealing. And the CPC populists wont have their bogey man anymore.

I don’t see PP changing that.

Trudeau bows out. Freyland takes over and maybe we’ll finally have an adult in charge. Or in a stroke of luck maybe the CPC have an adult by the time the election rolls around but I doubt it.
 

TacticalTea

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Good points from both perspectives here.

I will say though, I don't think the LPC is finished if Trudeau leaves. Quite the contrary.

There isn't much of a personality cult left around him, as Canadians' exasperation with his personal brand is reflected in the party, both amongst members and MPs.

Plus, there are excellent options available to replace him, like the oft-touted DPM.
 

IKnowNothing

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Good points from both perspectives here.

I will say though, I don't think the LPC is finished if Trudeau leaves. Quite the contrary.

There isn't much of a personality cult left around him, as Canadians' exasperation with his personal brand is reflected in the party, both amongst members and MPs.

Plus, there are excellent options available to replace him, like the oft-touted DPM.
Agreed, I'd go so as to say that as of this moment he's an active detriment, especially in the centre (both right and left).
 

suffolkowner

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Is there somewhere that one can see the major policies and proposals of the candidates?
 

OldSolduer

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Good points from both perspectives here.

I will say though, I don't think the LPC is finished if Trudeau leaves. Quite the contrary.

There isn't much of a personality cult left around him, as Canadians' exasperation with his personal brand is reflected in the party, both amongst members and MPs.

Plus, there are excellent options available to replace him, like the oft-touted DPM.
All that is necessary for a Liberal win is some wing nut Conservative candidate spouting off about abortion and reversing the conversion therapy legislation and there - a Liberal win neatly wrapped and tied by the CPC.

FWIW the mainstream media has a huge effect on voters as you all know. Look at the recent weather in Manitoba. The MSM found every talking head it could saying was the "Storm of the Century". It sent Winnipegers on a panic buy of milk and eggs. Seriously.

I called it Wednesday.
 

suffolkowner

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I didn't realize that Pierre was polling that strongly looks like its his to lose.

Talking to a few kids working with my son and they were all into things like fetal personhood and such which I had not actually heard of before. There is much American political cross pollination going on there which I worry will sink any chance of a Conservative government
 

Brad Sallows

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Theocracy.

Oligarchy.

Populism.

So the US is assuredly not a theocracy, while it is thought to be an oligarchy, and the same factors are in evidence regardless whether Republicans or Democrats control most of the power. Yet it is also thought to be in the grip of populism now whenever the (Trump-influenced/aligned/beholden/obeisant) Republicans are in charge, and populism doesn't square well with oligarchy. Certainly the Republican "establishment" is not in control of the party, and the sub-faction that held sway during 2000-2008 has been emphatically side-lined (evidenced by the past few years of their continuing lamentations).

If there is oligarchy in Canada, the best fit for the jacket is the LPC. As for Poilievre, is he a populist, an oligarch, or something else?

[Add: and if the NDP is increasingly the party of the chattering educated well-off white collar elite classes, where does it fit on the "oligarchy" scale?]
 
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