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09/10 Budget Impact on PRes - Unit stand-downs, Class B Freeze, and so on!

corp_express

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Where the hell did this class B employment freeze come from and why the hell were we given no warning.
I hope whoever thought this up is forced to feed their family, and pay their mortgage with no pay check for a month!

We have class B/A positions that are ESTABLISHED up for renewal where people can't sign their contracts.  Do people not realize the ramifications of having a class B contract not renewed without warning?!?!?  What ever happened to getting some notice before being told to pack up. 

Why the hell would a freeze apply to contracts that are already in motion!
Positions that are SOURCED, COMPETITIONED, and Pers Selected...  I really like seeing my buddies getting told to show up for work on a class B they were selected for and having them actually only work on class A.

What about their benefits, pension time, child care and health care...

Is the army broke or something...  if that's the case I opt that we cut that damned Maple Leaf Magazine that poisons the bathroom stalls of every one of our buildings before we put the financial well being of our soldiers on ice to decide which jobs to cut.

Shame on whoever thinks it is a game to play with peoples lively hoods. This displays poor management at the highest of levels.

 

dangerboy

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In the O group we got today we were told that the army is cutting around $57 million and LFWA about $23.  This is affecting us at the training centre as right now we can't get demo troops for anything as they don't have the class B positions available.
 

Roy Harding

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Welcome to the '70s, '80s, and '90s.

I'm sure the taste it leaves in your mouth is just as bitter as it was back then.

Can someone who's plugged in post a link to a CANFORGEN or CANLANDGEN?  (Even if it's only available on the DIN, and therefore not to me, it may be helpful to others who are directly affected).
 

Occam

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Can someone enlighten those of us who are out of the office on leave?  Is this Army-wide, or CF-wide?
 

dangerboy

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Roy, just looked there is no CANFORGEN or CANLANDGEN out about this.
 

dapaterson

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In the Army, each LFA makes decisions about what to cut / stop / restrict to stay within their funding envelope.

This year, the NDHQ-approval of budgets did not occur until mid-August (with the fiscal year starting in April).  This means that in some cases plans went forward, to learn four months into the year that they are not funded.  Thus mitigation measures are necessary - the Army gets less than planned, meaning the Areas get less, and so on down the chain of command.

If the numbers cited are correct, and the Army is "short" $57M, that would be less than 4% of the Army's budget (note that the Army budget does not pay Reg F pay - that's managed centrally for the CF.)  Keep in mind that "short" is relative to Army demand; that $57M (I don't have figures handy to confirm that number - even if I did, this is not a forum to disclose such numbers) could still mean the Army has more money than last year, just allocated to different priorities.

Unfortunately, the only two speeds the Army seems to know are full out and full stop.  It's difficult to steer any vehicle when you limit yourself to two speeds; the Army and its subordinate HQs need to do a better job of controlling appetite and having real mitigation strategies in place when funding does not materialize.

(And here's betting that funds will be found during the last 2-3 months of the year as various commanders release their funding reserves, and the Army ends the fiscal year with unexpended funds.  But that's another issue).
 

Michael OLeary

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With no official source to reference, the bits and pieces I have seen/heard seem to imply that there have been cuts (this we know), and there may be more cuts (tbc, of course).  This started after many op plans and related budgets were approved, so with little or no warning at all in trenches.  The freeze appears (to me) to be part of a collective holding of breath while the Army waits to see how much pain is coming.  If Class "B" contracts are considered one possible area of savings, that may be to avoid the risk of signing those contracts and being forced to reduce elsewhere - like losing an even larger share of training budgets which have already taken a hit.
 

McG

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corp_express said:
Where the hell did this class B employment freeze come from and why the hell were we given no warning.
I hope whoever thought this up is forced to feed their family, and pay their mortgage with no pay check for a month!
Nearly the same thing has happened with civilian employment.  No positions can be staffed without CLS approval (so, no new positions & no replacing people as they leave positions).
 
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Will this be effective immediately, thinking about current domestic op's such as OP Podium, can someone provide some input.....
 

McG

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PODIUM is a Canada Command operation and would not be subject to LFC hiring freezes.  Different bosses.
 
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Thank you, definitely sounds like this will be effecting alot of folk out there, especially reserve unit operations, where alot of folk are employed with the dnd.....
 

McG

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cbt arms sub tech said:
... where alot of folk are employed with the dnd.....
Keep in mind that this thread states just Army and not the whole of DND.  The Air Force, Navy, .COMS and ADMs don't take marching orders on hiring (or not) from CLS.
 

corp_express

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Apparantly,

This was effective Aug 23rd...  even though, we only found out about it Sep 1st... after I terminated a class b contract to move to a new position, I showed up to sign a contract...  and yea about that.
They want to put a freeze...?  Sure, do it 30 days after my contract start date. Let me at least find a job at McDonald's or something.

Like I said...  I hope the person who initiated this, can expect work Oct 1st and gets told that his position no longer exists when he shows up to work.

We get an economic adjustment but at the same time we cut 1000 jobs...
Such a positive gain.
 

PuckChaser

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From what I've heard there was over 1,000 positions OVER what should be allotted for Cl B employment. The issue (and I've seen it happen), is people near their 20 or 25 find a place they like to work at, and don't want to get posted. They get in good with the pers that create Cl B positions, or even request that there be a Cl B created at X rank level to "help" them out. Once the position is created, they pull pin and fill the spot themselves. Now they make pension money plus Cl B money and can stay in that job for another 15 years because theres no accountability for Cl Bs. I'm sure theres a whole lot of positions that are getting axed by this freeze that are actually required, but a lot that are patronage positions are getting stopped too.
 

corp_express

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Regardless...  Isn't there a moral obligation somewhere to employ people for 30 days. Even if their job gets axed.

30 days notice...  fine I'll take that,  but having it caught in a freeze with the possibilty of termination...  that is a different story.
 

Grunt_031

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We too are facing cuts at work (DND Civ). Spending and hire freeze. No parts unless it is breakdown maintenance or a priority job. We have no hiring and no replacement of pers leaving. This is forcasted until next FY.

We just had a half dozen personnel told on Fri that they were beginning extended on their contracts from Aug 09 to Mar 10 and then told on Monday sorry we will have to let you go end Sep because there is no money.

 

Haggis

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Before everyone starts headhunting it would be wise and prudent to remember a few things:

1. All Class B positions are subject to funding availaibilty.  Even existing contracts can be terminated if the funding runs out or is cut (i.e. on multi-year projects). If, as it appears in this case, a position is sourced and staffed with no funding available, then the member to be employed in that position may not be paid.  If a member hasn't yet signed an SOU, then there is no requirement for the member to report for work or for the CF to pay that member.  If an SOU has been signed, then it is a contract between the member and the CF and the member must be paid.

2.  The CF (and therefore the Army) gets it's funding from Treasury Board.  When funding is cut, it is Treasury Board that initiates the process by clawing back money from DND and the CF.  The CF is then forced to make hard choices to meet TB demands.

3.  The number of Reservists on full time (Class B and C) service is at an all time high and is also, quite frankly unsustainable.  There are many reasons for this which are not apparent to those on the Armoury floor.

PuckChaser said:
From what I've heard there was over 1,000 positions OVER what should be allotted for Cl B employment. The issue (and I've seen it happen), is people near their 20 or 25 find a place they like to work at, and don't want to get posted. They get in good with the pers that create Cl B positions, or even request that there be a Cl B created at X rank level to "help" them out. Once the position is created, they pull pin and fill the spot themselves. Now they make pension money plus Cl B money and can stay in that job for another 15 years because theres no accountability for Cl Bs. I'm sure theres a whole lot of positions that are getting axed by this freeze that are actually required, but a lot that are patronage positions are getting stopped too.

This does happen.  There are, for example, 61 Class B CWO/CPO1 in NDHQ above the establishment.  As noted there are reasons for this.  Some good.  Some "not so good".
 

old fart

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The Regular Force is still recruiting...I believe this is the website:

http://www.forces.ca/

Have a good one...
 

corp_express

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Oh, well this case is specific...  I'm not as chuffed about my case as I might sound.

I'm more concerned for the seven guys that are on revolving 365 day contracts.
Who all of a sudden are off contract. No warning whatsoever, contract not renewed.

At the end of the day, the majority of these positions, are required "RQ, OPS NCO, FIN CLERK...." most likely these will be approved,  but why throw in a break in service and destroy the consecutive months of employment just for kicks and giggles.

You are right... Legally, and by the book, we all havn't signed SOU's so there is no obligation to pay us...  ahh ok, it's all too clear now. I guess, when these positions become approved we should all just walk away and let the the unit administrate itself...?



 

Infanteer

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old fart said:
The Regular Force is still recruiting...I believe this is the website:

http://www.forces.ca/

Have a good one...

Good point - although 30 days would be nice, it would also assume that Class B jobs are held in perpetuity;

With regards to funding and Class B positions, perhaps there is a bit of "reigning in" being done?  For reservists who want to work in the Army full time, is the option to sign a regular force contract being considered as an option?
 
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